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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;This is kind of off topic but div2 teams..&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by Vlijm</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452270</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Sideshow</i>
		<blockquote>Watch 200 demos a day</blockquote>]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 12:03:46 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Sideshow</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452261</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I don't get where this idea has come from that it is difficult to move up divisions. If you are genuinely good, and not a dickface that nobody wants to play with, you will move up. You don't need to play more than 2 hours a day to improve...

Play your pcws, focus on getting good. Think about what you're doing in game. Review your demos, review other people's demos (both better and worse), analyse the game. Ask to merc for other teams if you want higher experience or want to get noticed. And if you're really that bothered about improving and you think your team is holding you back, trial for other teams who are looking. 
Pu2 will not make you amazing at the game, and it probably won't get you noticed either, but it's actually really simple to get an invite. Just ask.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 10:57:26 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by reservoir_dog</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452243</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from dauk</i>
		<blockquote>For me personally this was always the biggest problem with TF2 community. Back when I was an active player there was no other way I could try to improve besides playing clan practices with my team, hell at least I had a team.
Even during pcws that usually took like 3-4 hours in total, of which 1 + hour was waiting for everyone to get ready and then only playing one map out of 2 since the delay. And that was it, 3 maps per day was all I could get to improve my game.
All my other alternatives were:
-DM or MGE servers, not so good for demo.
-Late night doublemixes, not so good for anyone who has some real life responsibilities and can't stay till 4 in the morning, plus there was more screwing around than actual playing.
-Pickups, open pickups were nothing to do due skill difference and I felt like learning more bad habits than actually improving.
And then there were pug2, the pug that was starving on players, yet it was nearly  impossible to get a temporary invite because it was run by a person that either could not put aside his feelings when it comes to leadership or just didn't bother. I mean seriously legit players could not enter it because they were div 3 one year ago or ran into sticky trap and yet every female regardless of her skill could get a free pass.
It is very difficult for players that don't have a good team, and don't wanna participate in ass kissing and circle jerking, for those players that just want to play game and be better at it.
And here where etf2l is right now, same old players form same teams with different names each season since nobody can challenge them, many teams just have to outlive others to get into higher divisions.</blockquote>

This is the most truthful comment I have read so far on this forums.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 04:22:07 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by CondoM</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452196</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Monkeh</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

Consider this a warning Hallow... Won't be long and you'll all fall under the kick hammer.

Oh wait, I'm not even a deputy never mind a team leader..well then, I'll ask zen to do it for me, kick you all and himself.

MU-AHH-HAAA-HAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........

:D</blockquote>
Nooooooooo, but you haven't even carried me to div 2 yet :(((((((((((((((((]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 22:45:04 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by svins</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452190</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I think chiakii is very talanted. Great aim and decent hats!

Add me, raiku, I sometimes make div5 mixes. You`ll learn a lot.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 22:05:30 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by FainT.</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452172</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Vlijm</i>
		<blockquote>Im in the wrong div

divs?</blockquote>Get back in div 6 you]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 21:14:54 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by MInd-</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452158</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from skeej</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

dauk come back to tf2, i miss you

promise i will get you a pu2 invite &#60;3

Your post is partially true though... i&#039;d say its 50/50, yes there is a lot of &#34;old boys network&#34; and circlejerking going on, but true talent is always recognized and you always see teams and individuals go up the ranks if they really want it and have it in them. Being cynical about the situation will only be counterproductive of course. Nobody has ever stopped anyone from taking matters into their own hands either; everyone is free to start their own team and recruit upcoming players... I basically started out with my self-made div3 team and took it to div1 with you. And you have that experience too if I&#039;m correct, with MG.

Also I think MGE does help for demo... For your positional play and decisionmaking you should just play good pcws and watch your own demos and watch demos of other demos, yo dawg i herd u liek demos so i put a demo of a demo in ur demo folder omg i only slept 4 hours leave me alone</blockquote>
Just be finnish, that'll get you on pu2. Atleast that got me there.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 20:15:51 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by lclent</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452149</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from dauk</i>
		<blockquote>For me personally this was always the biggest problem with TF2 community. Back when I was an active player there was no other way I could try to improve besides playing clan practices with my team, hell at least I had a team.
Even during pcws that usually took like 3-4 hours in total, of which 1 + hour was waiting for everyone to get ready and then only playing one map out of 2 since the delay. And that was it, 3 maps per day was all I could get to improve my game.
All my other alternatives were:
-DM or MGE servers, not so good for demo.
-Late night doublemixes, not so good for anyone who has some real life responsibilities and can't stay till 4 in the morning, plus there was more screwing around than actual playing.
-Pickups, open pickups were nothing to do due skill difference and I felt like learning more bad habits than actually improving.
And then there were pug2, the pug that was starving on players, yet it was nearly  impossible to get a temporary invite because it was run by a person that either could not put aside his feelings when it comes to leadership or just didn't bother. I mean seriously legit players could not enter it because they were div 3 one year ago or ran into sticky trap and yet every female regardless of her skill could get a free pass.
It is very difficult for players that don't have a good team, and don't wanna participate in ass kissing and circle jerking, for those players that just want to play game and be better at it.
And here where etf2l is right now, same old players form same teams with different names each season since nobody can challenge them, many teams just have to outlive others to get into higher divisions.</blockquote>
+10000000000000000000000000000]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 19:49:33 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by lexsoor</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452129</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Enef</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

If you find that everyone else is hard to get along with and you are the only one that is ok, maybe the problem isn't with everyone else.</blockquote>
I should rephrase: those people WITHOUT A TEAM are fucking hard to find]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 19:06:11 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Vlijm</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452119</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Im in the wrong div

divs?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 17:53:24 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Dendocror</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452106</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I disagree about the circlejerking aspect. The only circlejerks in the lower divs are mostly bad anyway. The biggest circlejerk that exists is prem itself.

I agree with Skeej though, talent is always recognised. If you at least catch the attention of someone in a higher div then you might stand a chance. But I think you've gone the complete WRONG way about it when posting on the forums.

Good luck, either way.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 16:49:56 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Severyo</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452099</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[This feels like a Pennyfarming thread. #Pennyfarming E-Sports.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 16:41:13 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by skeej</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452096</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from dauk</i>
		<blockquote>For me personally this was always the biggest problem with TF2 community. Back when I was an active player there was no other way I could try to improve besides playing clan practices with my team, hell at least I had a team.
Even during pcws that usually took like 3-4 hours in total, of which 1 + hour was waiting for everyone to get ready and then only playing one map out of 2 since the delay. And that was it, 3 maps per day was all I could get to improve my game.
All my other alternatives were:
-DM or MGE servers, not so good for demo.
-Late night doublemixes, not so good for anyone who has some real life responsibilities and can't stay till 4 in the morning, plus there was more screwing around than actual playing.
-Pickups, open pickups were nothing to do due skill difference and I felt like learning more bad habits than actually improving.
And then there were pug2, the pug that was starving on players, yet it was nearly  impossible to get a temporary invite because it was run by a person that either could not put aside his feelings when it comes to leadership or just didn't bother. I mean seriously legit players could not enter it because they were div 3 one year ago or ran into sticky trap and yet every female regardless of her skill could get a free pass.
It is very difficult for players that don't have a good team, and don't wanna participate in ass kissing and circle jerking, for those players that just want to play game and be better at it.
And here where etf2l is right now, same old players form same teams with different names each season since nobody can challenge them, many teams just have to outlive others to get into higher divisions.</blockquote>

dauk come back to tf2, i miss you

promise i will get you a pu2 invite &#60;3

Your post is partially true though... i&#039;d say its 50/50, yes there is a lot of &#34;old boys network&#34; and circlejerking going on, but true talent is always recognized and you always see teams and individuals go up the ranks if they really want it and have it in them. Being cynical about the situation will only be counterproductive of course. Nobody has ever stopped anyone from taking matters into their own hands either; everyone is free to start their own team and recruit upcoming players... I basically started out with my self-made div3 team and took it to div1 with you. And you have that experience too if I&#039;m correct, with MG.

Also I think MGE does help for demo... For your positional play and decisionmaking you should just play good pcws and watch your own demos and watch demos of other demos, yo dawg i herd u liek demos so i put a demo of a demo in ur demo folder omg i only slept 4 hours leave me alone]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 16:32:28 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Dukermons</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-3/?recent=452270#post=452095</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Hallow</i>
		<blockquote>

also lol @ limp saying monkeh should kick everyone.</blockquote>

Consider this a warning Hallow... Won't be long and you'll all fall under the kick hammer.

Oh wait, I'm not even a deputy never mind a team leader..well then, I'll ask zen to do it for me, kick you all and himself.

MU-AHH-HAAA-HAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........

:D]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 16:20:51 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by LimputtaJa</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/tactics/topic-25774/page-2/?recent=452270#post=452093</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Monkeh</i>
		<blockquote>[...]
</blockquote>

I didn't say start team hopping. I said if your team dosent share same goals as you the it's maybe not right option for you or if there is people beeing inactive and stoping team to practice then just replace them. As of what I'v seen there are quite few teams who'd like to play/practice more and improve but theres always some who don't show up and "have life" and still hang on to these players just because they are "ahh so nice guy". If someone is not commiting then just replace him/her and get on with it. At least I don't personaly see whats the point hanging on something that isn't what you want.

But sure if you just play for fun and don't really care after all its different of course.


<i>Quoted from Enef</i>
		<blockquote>[...]
</blockquote>
Also I didn't say anything about if team is bad then just scratch them and find new one. As I said, I was talking about situation where your own goals and what you want from team and teams dont meet. Like you want to practice improve, but your team really not putting any effort to it, winnig or losing games. But you fail to understand this, not surprise, typical ignorant brit I'd like to say.



And to add that is more about team related and if talking about individual improvement and you say mixing etc don't help I think you are focusing on wrong things then. Sure if it is lees seriuous and relaxed mix it  can be hard to focus but you should be more focusing on what you are doing and your own execution and it will help regardless what skill level it is as long as you are really putting your mind in to it. +watching demos etc etc. Really there are tons of ways improve if you just do something for it like really and not just "but I play 50h week and it's all just waste qq pls get me div2+ mixes :(("]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 16:09:37 +0200</pubDate>
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