ETF2L – Latest activity in “AV (Alternative Voting)” https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/ Reply by TelekineticBear https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-5/?recent=300491#post=300491 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300491 Wed, 04 May 2011 18:09:39 +0200 Reply by adam-skyride https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-5/?recent=300491#post=300490 Quoted from the bm man
labour havent had a left wing manifesto since the 1980's and predominately appeal to central voters who became supporters of Labour under Tony blair and new labour ie a generally central party. Basically if you think that labour is a left wing party or has ever done well as a left wing party apart from a 5 year space in the 1940's you are dillusional
The NHS sounds like a pretty left wing idea to me.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300490 Wed, 04 May 2011 18:08:55 +0200 Reply by TelekineticBear https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-5/?recent=300491#post=300489 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300489 Wed, 04 May 2011 18:05:53 +0200 Reply by sKag https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300487 Quoted from the bm man
[...] lmfao no its fucking not
Sorry I forgot to back up my statement with facts. Here you go, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/ In the 2010 General Election 36% of the population voted for the conservatives. 52% of the population voted for Labour or LibDem. Your turn.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300487 Wed, 04 May 2011 18:03:04 +0200 Reply by TelekineticBear https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300481 Quoted from captain bubblebeard
Think of it like this: the UK population on the whole is of a center-left political persuasion. . .
lmfao no its fucking not]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300481 Wed, 04 May 2011 17:49:55 +0200 Reply by TelekineticBear https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300476 Quoted from Skyride
[...] Is that a problem though?
yes if you want a bunch of no name morons like the green party and bnp or socialist workers or whatever then go right ahead you're still throwing your vote away but you feel like you've done something]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300476 Wed, 04 May 2011 17:43:16 +0200 Reply by skeej https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300442 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300442 Wed, 04 May 2011 16:51:12 +0200 Reply by kuma1 https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300432 Quoted from CrancK
an alternative view on voting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igbBItLemsM (although somewhat targeted at US, but also applies for UK or any other voting for governments)
Irrelevant to the discussion at hand which is on AV. The merits of voting and democracy itself is another subject.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300432 Wed, 04 May 2011 16:20:03 +0200 Reply by Squeak https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300431 Quoted from Andee
Just out of interest. What is AV an what is FPTP, and what is the difference? :-)
Just cos I like your hat Andee, this is it basically: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27255580/av-arguments.jpg and for anybody else clueless. I hope you're all using your vote though >.>]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300431 Wed, 04 May 2011 16:19:57 +0200 Reply by CrancK https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300430 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300430 Wed, 04 May 2011 16:05:46 +0200 Reply by stwn https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300426 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300426 Wed, 04 May 2011 16:02:25 +0200 Reply by adam-skyride https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300414 Quoted from freshmeatt
Forgive me my utter ignorance in the matter, but I've blasted through the topic and got mildly interested in the issue. Putting idealism and preserving status quo aside, if the result of AV might be introducing a parliament accepted by everyone, instead of beloved by half and hated by the other, what's the deal? What are real disadvantages, where's the catch?
Well it isn't necessarily going to do quite that much, it just means that the actual people in power are more likely to truly represent who the country wants in power. The catch is there are 2 groups of people who for reasons of vested interest, would prefer FPTP. 1) Hardcore Labour and Conservative members. This system makes it a lot harder for these parties to get a full majority, and unfortunately a lot of them have a lot of money to spend on lying to the country about the AV system (see: no2av campaign, which is financially funded by an (ex?)conservative politician). 2) A disappointingly large number of people, either through ignorance or stupidity, genuinely believe that the FPTP system is better.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300414 Wed, 04 May 2011 15:37:22 +0200 Reply by Krakyn https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300412 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300412 Wed, 04 May 2011 15:29:01 +0200 Reply by freshmeatt https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300396 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300396 Wed, 04 May 2011 14:53:26 +0200 Reply by sKag https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/topic-16643/page-4/?recent=300491#post=300394 Quoted from Wabbeh
[...] The problem with the diagram is that its either coffee or pub, but thats not how it works. No matter how much overlap there is, there's always going to be differences, yet the diagram fails to recognise that. If you say the diagram represents policies, then it's even more pointless and misguiding - the only time the public can vote for policies is through a referendum, and AV affects general elections, in which parties are voted for. A more accurate diagram would be a coffee shop, a wine bar, a pub, a cafe, and a restaurant: yes, they all sell food and drinks; yes, some of the goods they sell overlap, but they are all different types.
You're over complicating things. Think of it like this: the UK population on the whole is of a center-left political persuasion. But the centre left vote is split between different parties (Labour and Lib Dem largely). Those on the right have realistically only one party to vote for, the conservatives.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=off-topic&topic=16643&post=300394 Wed, 04 May 2011 14:42:07 +0200