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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;Can ETF2L learn something from WPTF2L? (Scheduling &#38; Results submission)&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by frymaster</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-3/?recent=126457#post=126457</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[just to point out, a team I speak to got scheduled a default date for a match that was at the same time as a previously-scheduled ladder match

that the auto-default system wasn't that intelligent is maybe fair enough, but the first admin they spoke to wouldn't change the date, taking the attitude "if both teams agree to change then fine otherwise you HAVE to play the default"

the other team was taking the (reasonable imo) attitude that the default was a good time for them to play so they weren't interested in changing it.  had to get another admin to sort it all out]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:32:29 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by SnowiE</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-3/?recent=126457#post=126293</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I only found out recently that non-admins can't see the schedule history on the match pages, I'm getting that rectified.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 18:36:23 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by D2M</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-3/?recent=126457#post=126197</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Damn b0nes, essays are most unlike you!

Good post though :)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:51:58 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by b0nes</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-3/?recent=126457#post=126195</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Hi, im head admin for wireplay tf2 competitions.

Our system is not without its problems thats for sure, and why maybe its easier for clans this way its certainly not all roses for admin, who end up relentlessly chasing up clans. Our main philosophy is we hate defaults and default hunting clans, why play a league when half your wins are because you moan so much. That is the reason for our rather easy going schedule system.

We always have a nightmare with higher leagues, and season before last we had to close the prem as only 1 clan actually wanted to play. I don't think it was due to scheduling or the way we do things, I just think they couldn't be arsed.

We do want clans to play in the right week, but it doesn't always happen. If we find clans are falling behind then admin take action and kick them up the ass, or just kick them out. ETF2L default date system is very useful I think when you come up against a clan that just doesn't want to play ball, but having a default date, then sitting on the server hoping they turn up when they obviously haven't made any effort to arrange the game is also kinda dumb.

I don't think theres any definitive best way to do it, if clans are useless then thats that, its gonna be a problem no matter how you do it. I think the best thing we do is create a steam group of divs for leaders of ever clan, this makes communication so much easier.

Uploading screenies is a bit of a pain, but if u lose all the time like my clan you don't have to do it so much :p I also like they way etf2l list players, its a nice perk.

We will be implementing a few changes to the site for next season, opening up the fixture pages so anyone can post and see comments (not just leaders when they suggest a date), and a couple of other changes I would like. The site is totally bespoke and has been a work in progress for a long long time and will continue to be. Those in the know we realise its a highbred of our old tfc league, and will know it gets better and better all the time.

etf2l is a great league run by great people, but tf2 needs more than one decent dedicated league. I certainly cant think of any others that cut it.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:48:16 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Jarate Kid</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-2/?recent=126457#post=125590</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[tbh we played wireplay. Team 1 =  Team 2 =  click and go update. The absolute ball ache of uploading screenshots is altimately pointless. Status screenshots ok but not ones of every single result.

But it could be worse it could be the days of the UKTFCL wait for 2 weeks for results to be updated by the league made for an exciting league but absolutely no idea who had got what result.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:41:41 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by kaidus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-2/?recent=126457#post=125588</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Boo hoo it takes 30 seconds to get a screenshot from a demo?]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=7890&#038;post=125588</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:20:15 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Tikcus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-2/?recent=126457#post=125577</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>there is a option in TF2, which makes screenshots after every round,
so for every guy who often forgets to make it, just enable the option
no need to cancel the screens</blockquote>

Since the etf2l cfg for Gravelpit isn't set to max rounds 4, the auto screen shot doesn't work in gravel pit, meaning you need to remmeber to screen shot the scoreboard at end of each full round, which is easy missed in the 2 seconds you got to hit F5.

Plus the reload of the cfg/restart of tournament mode, the auto screenshot still wouldn't work, because of abba rules]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 01:32:02 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by cheetah</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-2/?recent=126457#post=125569</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[there is a option in TF2, which makes screenshots after every round,
so for every guy who often forgets to make it, just enable the option
no need to cancel the screens]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=7890&#038;post=125569</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:30:50 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Grem</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-2/?recent=126457#post=125567</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I like the results screen. It different from the other leagues and provide some eye candy to the casual browser. Like who's playing well, how badly the other team was donked on, what lineup they used, dominations etc. 
+1 to the other suggestions though.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:29:56 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by xtala</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-2/?recent=126457#post=125565</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I think a combination could work out pretty well.
Keep that status screens for a quick check on who played, but maybe drop the other screens, or make them optional.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:25:00 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by SnowiE</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-2/?recent=126457#post=125509</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Jones - I can see incorporating the calendar input system directly onto the match page would be nicer so you could still see the schedule history and match comments as you input a new proposed date.

As for the proposal system itself, it is now virtually identical to the wireplay one.

Personally I'd rather go further and have fixed days for league games than have quite such an open ended scheduling ettiquete as wireplay has, back in the days of Wireplay Q3F everyone knew Sunday was league night :) It might be pretty impractical for the numbers of players/teams we have in TF2 though.

I also like having the screenshots and status shots available, thankfully because of the amazing work mihalch and others did for our status screen analyser, checking for unauthorised mercs is more or less completely automated. It also means we know who played in what games, so when cheaters are caught it's easy to default the correct games. Gravelpit screenshots are a bit of a pain, in 6 seasons I've missed a few but it doesn't bother me too much having to take them every game.

Teams can verify results themselves without waiting for the admins to do it, although I don't think many people are aware of this.

Overall the systems are actually really similar.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:57:07 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Skilgannon</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-2/?recent=126457#post=125490</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[gotta be honest here I find the wp system much easier than here, I still cant figure out all the scheduling on here etc

also agree that uploading status screenshots is a pain in the arse, I use a condump at the start of each map on wp matches, check steamids after the match and email the condump if there is an issue over there, much simpler and tbh I am a shit for forgetting to take a screen at the end of a match as well so the 2 teams agreeing is much easier 

I also prefer the freedom over there for match arranging, we got put into this season of etf2l in week 3 or 4 and the forced match system kicked in almost immediately meaning we had a horrific week of having to play 2 etf2l matches, a wp match and trying to fit a real life, work, kids etc in was a nightmare, we also couldnt put matches on hold for a couple of weeks to replace a couple of dropped players causing us to quit this season due to "staffing issues" and not wanting to default any matches with teams who were having the same issues

gotta say as well we as a clan have ALWAYS finished bang on time on their leagues and have had very few problems with other clans being daft about it but then we are in a lower div and the issues always seem to be with high div clans 

dont mean to have a whinge about etf2l at all, its a great league however I do prefer the wp system :)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:04:24 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by cheetah</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-2/?recent=126457#post=125477</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[dont count the esreal one, they are more or less dropped
so only 3 like DCSB]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:20:28 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Sidney</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-2/?recent=126457#post=125473</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>Too much freedom is a bad idea, look at the premiere division last season on wireplay. i think it got removed because several teams didn't play any of their games? forcing the teams to play on a weekly basis means most of the teams complete all their games in a timely manner instead of defaulting games at the end of the season or even playing 4 games in the last week?</blockquote>
http://etf2l.org/teams/149/
In all seriousness, weekly restrictions should be kept.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:49:32 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by baerbel</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7890/page-2/?recent=126457#post=125471</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[i think forcing people to play on a weekly schedule has several advantages. 
it makes the league more interesting. you will be able to see who is making good progress who will probably win  the league etc.

Too much freedom is a bad idea, look at the premiere division last season on wireplay. i think it got removed because several teams didn't play any of their games? forcing the teams to play on a weekly basis means most of the teams complete all their games in a timely manner instead of defaulting games at the end of the season or even playing 4 games in the last week?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:43:46 +0100</pubDate>
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