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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;Why not recruit instead of folding?&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by GibbZ</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=114046</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>I really have to agree with eon on this. Really kootchikoo, clans drop for a reason. What you're saying is pretty much "Why not just not fold!? Its so easy to just recruit loads of people and still play season 6!"
Simply patching stuff up by recruiting whatever lower skilled players they can find at the time isn't going to make the clans any more stable and isn't helpful at all towards the community. It's stupid to think that would even help, just because you want your 6-0 points :P 

<b>Teamwork and stability is built over time, new players take effort to blend into the team. People aren't going to stick around and make this effort if theyre not completely happy with the lineup</b> or at all playing with people they like (in most cases, playing with friends). Nor are people going to want to stick around just to lose every match this season. Funnily enough, alot of people find it less fun when all they do is lose. So eventually people will leave if loads of randoms are thrown into the mix just keep the clan from folding. 

As much as i'd like to agree and wish there were less clans folding these days, it isn't going to happen. You can't expect everyone to be like loco and never give up :P

Do agree with reforms staying in the season and keeping their name though.</blockquote>

Yet I still play with you :(]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=7255&#038;post=114046</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:44:51 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by tapley</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=114031</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Clans fold so much these days because alot of the stable/higher skilled players have left the game. The clans that have stepped up in their space just cant handle it and buckle and the players taking the places seems to be about 15 or 16 years old with not much maturity or common sense and or knowledge of the english language.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:18:07 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by illii</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=113887</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I really have to agree with eon on this. Really kootchikoo, clans drop for a reason. What you're saying is pretty much "Why not just not fold!? Its so easy to just recruit loads of people and still play season 6!"
Simply patching stuff up by recruiting whatever lower skilled players they can find at the time isn't going to make the clans any more stable and isn't helpful at all towards the community. It's stupid to think that would even help, just because you want your 6-0 points :P 

Teamwork and stability is built over time, new players take effort to blend into the team. People aren't going to stick around and make this effort if theyre not completely happy with the lineup or at all playing with people they like (in most cases, playing with friends). Nor are people going to want to stick around just to lose every match this season. Funnily enough, alot of people find it less fun when all they do is lose. So eventually people will leave if loads of randoms are thrown into the mix just keep the clan from folding. 

As much as i'd like to agree and wish there were less clans folding these days, it isn't going to happen. You can't expect everyone to be like loco and never give up :P

Do agree with reforms staying in the season and keeping their name though.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:04:02 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Ino</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=113877</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote>why not cum out a window?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTeB4KeeaQg</blockquote>
first thing that came to mind.

'you know, you don't always have to have anal sex'</blockquote>

Oh really? Damn...]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=7255&#038;post=113877</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:35:41 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by -Flush-</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=113875</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[namedropping Koeitje expect a few slaps in the future : P]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:32:27 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Koeitje</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=113865</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>True, but neither of us can say "Why not recruit instead of folding?".
</blockquote>

It's not a statement. It's a question. 

<blockquote><blockquote>Besides, what has that to do with the issues discussed in this topic? If anything it proves you don't have to fold after one setback.</blockquote>
No offence Koeitj but you were arguing that it is so easy to reform a team out of clanless or unknown players to prevent the foldage, right? Maybe not every team leader is about to recruit every shit and untrustworthy player they can get. they may have standards and want players around them who they can trust. who they know from the past and who ain't wrecking their clan image. this was exactly the point with my teams back in TFC thus we called it the day. I'd do the same if I would face the choice again in TF2 and this has nothing to do with elitism in any kind of form.</blockquote>

Mads was a nice guy, he fit in the team. Wasn't the most blessed player skillwise, but did his job and worked in the team. The only real mistake we made recruiting was Deek (I wont go into details about that).]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:47:02 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by kitty jones</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=113856</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>Besides, what has that to do with the issues discussed in this topic? If anything it proves you don't have to fold after one setback.</blockquote>
No offence Koeitj but you were arguing that it is so easy to reform a team out of clanless or unknown players to prevent the foldage, right? Maybe not every team leader is about to recruit every shit and untrustworthy player they can get. they may have standards and want players around them who they can trust. who they know from the past and who ain't wrecking their clan image. this was exactly the point with my teams back in TFC thus we called it the day. I'd do the same if I would face the choice again in TF2 and this has nothing to do with elitism in any kind of form.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:40:08 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by fJack</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=113806</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>why not cum out a window?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTeB4KeeaQg</blockquote>
first thing that came to mind.

'you know, you don't always have to have anal sex']]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 01:30:37 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by eoN</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=113798</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[True, but neither of us can say "Why not recruit instead of folding?".

Its completely based on the situation, the friendships, the clan, the leadership structure, is there motivation (eg a MGO or something).

If you have motivation or a good leader a team can easily get far, but if one player doesnt enjoy it and has a good mate people put friendships before gaming (and tbh i completely agree they should... everyone plays for fun, if they dont enjoy the game anymore after how every man years they have played (how long have we been playing 6v6 with 1 demo 1 medic 2 solis and 2 scouts?) and people are surprised at peple leaving finding it difficult to keep motivation up etc, its not surprising.)

I love brackets.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:57:14 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Koeitje</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=113791</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote>I never been proven wrong on this matter though. Only thing that has been proven is that peoples opinions on this subject vary. There is no right or wrong. If you say I'm stubborn that just means you can't accept the fact that your opinion isn't necessarily right.</blockquote>

You have no clue how ironic that is, stubborn implys i dont take on other peoples opinions, i do. Your implying your right and everyone else is wrong (either that or your not getting your true message across or im not understanding it correctly)</blockquote>

I'm implying none of us is right. It's not black and white. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:33:50 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by eoN</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=113783</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>I never been proven wrong on this matter though. Only thing that has been proven is that peoples opinions on this subject vary. There is no right or wrong. If you say I'm stubborn that just means you can't accept the fact that your opinion isn't necessarily right.</blockquote>

You have no clue how ironic that is, stubborn implys i dont take on other peoples opinions, i do. Your implying your right and everyone else is wrong (either that or your not getting your true message across or im not understanding it correctly)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:18:27 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Koeitje</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-6/?recent=114046#post=113763</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I never been proven wrong on this matter though. Only thing that has been proven is that peoples opinions on this subject vary. There is no right or wrong. If you say I'm stubborn that just means you can't accept the fact that your opinion isn't necessarily right.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:09:27 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by eoN</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-5/?recent=114046#post=113755</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Koeitje, i think everyones point is its not black and white and you have no right to judge EVERY clan that has folded etc. I do agree with you and flush about teams finishing off a season but if one of your core members leave and you cant find someone that fits the team whats the point in carrying on when its going to be 0-6 every game, is that not just unfair on the first teams you played in the season when you where a strong team? Because if they lost it makes them look bad when everyone else gets 6-0 because you dont have a demo or whatever....

But yeah, clans shouldnt insta fold if they have problems but not every clan does insta fold alot of them do spend time recruiting or alot of the time its more along the lines of one person leaves, they have a good mate in the clan who also leaves, which causes another to leave and then your left with 3-4 players and recruiting is difficult when you have to go through 20 "MID" people to get one person who knows how to freaking sticky jump to mid on badlands...

Point is, dont judge every clan that quits, sometimes someone gets a life and the team cant replace them so they call it a day, alot of the time after recruiting for a long time while the player was still in the team (officially at least). So try to think a little more into it, and try not to take offence from what you seem to believe are "personal insults" when you whine about someone on a topic on a forum... I mean, what do you expect? Do you think they will just go "Oh im sorry"? Its the internet, no one gives a shit about being nice they just do as they please.

Im bored so writing a wall and want to bulk it out more, has anyone seen any good horror movies planning on having a night of horrors on halloween to feel free to spam me on Steam with loads of good films (probably wont reply but it will be appreciated)

Now back on topic... I think Punnsia was trying to mean your being very stubborn and maybe he doesnt feel you have listened to the other peoples replys, no one likes it when they are proven wrong but if you want to be mature about it think about it, i understand that this topic wouldnt be as effective without a scape goat clan (HH in this case) but just say "I'm sorry, I didn't know the full story etc and made assumptions but you all do understand what the core values of this topic are and where im coming from?" or something like that...

I wonder if this is big enough yet... 2 hours sleep, 3 mochas, 1 redbull and 1 relentless make you type longggggggggggggggggggggggggg time.

Anyway... If anyone actually reads this im gonna be very impressed :)

-EDIT: Not to self, quotes make walls look bigger.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:04:32 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by appe</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-5/?recent=114046#post=113717</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I'd fold if agron quit.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:50:55 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Koeitje</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-7255/page-5/?recent=114046#post=113713</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote>Just bring in the personal attacks. Just a method people resort to if they lack the intelligence to debate in a normal fashion.</blockquote>

You don't understand what he means. It's an expression. Having a thick head means you don't listen to what others are saying, you think what you say is right and the rest is just bullshit.
.</blockquote>
I understood him perfectly. I don't think you understood what I meant. Now I could start with personal insults, but I'm not like that. 
<blockquote>oh and btw wasn't it Koeitje who made an e-drama after the rejects got punished for recruiting a banned player? guess he shouldn't rise his voice that much against others when it comes down to player recruitments who actually fit the team in every aspect it needs.</blockquote>
Yes, we recruited a banned players because the admin team did jackshit about it. I even have logs of anakin saying there basically was no admin working on AC at the time. Besides, what has that to do with the issues discussed in this topic? If anything it proves you don't have to fold after one setback. 

<blockquote>

i disagree with this. so many clans have struggled through the season even if it means they finish bottom. this is greatly appreciated by everyone in the community. it means that matches dont have to be defaulted and matches that have already been played are not time wasted... so id strongly urge all teams to try and finish the season. also means u salvage a little pride by not folding : )</blockquote>
You hit the nail on the head there flush. It's not just HH folding, there are many other teams that fold for various reasons. Especially folding for a reason like not getting the results they expected pisses me off. All you are saying in such a case is that you want everything handed to you on a silver platter and you don't want to put any effort in it.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:47:04 +0100</pubDate>
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