ETF2L – Latest activity in “Discussion regarding the usage of banned players.” https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/ Reply by Vali https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-7/?recent=110367#post=110367 Vali the situations are different. Making an exception in that case has already proved what I said in this case, that the more exceptions we have the more complaints we have that people aren't getting what other people got. In that circumstance, fielding a banned player who was banned for his conduct is less of a threat to the validity of a result than fielding a banned player who was banned for cheating. Wasn't the decision based purely on the fact that it was a banned player circumventing the ban system, rather than the fact that he was banned for cheating? Get a couple of STV demos and review whether Mads was cheating or not in games for TDR; if you can clearly see that he wasn't then there's no reason that TDR should be punished more than nfinity because both banned players were clean while playing for the clans in question. If Mads is still around, which he probably is, and if he wants to prove to everyone that a) he's not as much of a dick as this situation makes him look and/or b) help the rejects out a bit after screwing them over, he could probably even provide you with some POVs of recent matches (like the official against Maggots). Also if exceptions to the rules look far more fair and plausible than the rules you're enforcing and there's a very good case to make an exception in each circumstance, then it's probably indicating that the rules you have aren't very good.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110367 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:35:42 +0200 Reply by Koeitje https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-7/?recent=110367#post=110334
http://pastebin.com/m664706b7 So basically etf2l just didn't have any admins doing their work for which we got punished.
Wow..... (although tbh, Anak1n is about the last person on AC I think you should be having a go at) Anakin is doing a fine job. Nothing against him. He just joined the AC team.
You'd think a team leader would stand a better shot at knowing who his team are than an AC official.
Why?]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110334 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:19:39 +0200 Reply by kaidus https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-7/?recent=110367#post=110333 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110333 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:19:26 +0200 Reply by waebi https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-7/?recent=110367#post=110331 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110331 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:17:53 +0200 Reply by adam-skyride https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-7/?recent=110367#post=110330 http://pastebin.com/m664706b7 So basically etf2l just didn't have any admins doing their work for which we got punished. Wow..... (although tbh, Anak1n is about the last person on AC I think you should be having a go at)]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110330 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:17:49 +0200 Reply by Koeitje https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-7/?recent=110367#post=110327 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110327 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:10:01 +0200 Reply by mnsu1vrh https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-7/?recent=110367#post=110316 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110316 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:51:08 +0200 Reply by Koeitje https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-7/?recent=110367#post=110307 However we need to be careful that we are not leaving the door open for a team in the future to add a banned cheat to their roster and then claim they did not know about it and ask for a far reduced punishment than the one they should actually receive. I agree. But a situation like that just shows that no two cases are the same and so no two cases should be treated the same.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110307 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:41:19 +0200 Reply by D2M https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-7/?recent=110367#post=110276 This wont take away my enjoyment of the game itself, but I am getting more and more worried about the way the league is being run. As soon as a good alternative to this league shows up with a decent admin crew I'm gone. Anyone that has some experience with running big communities knows you can't follow the rules blindly because it's never black and white. Slating the whole of the Admin team isn't going to provide a solution nor is it actually going to help anything in the future. It certainly doesn't provide a sustainable way for us to move forward together. I empathise with your unhappiness as I've previously stated in this thread, but taking potshots at us is hardly going to improve things is it? I'm not part of the anti-cheat team at the moment, so I'm unaware of the exact tools that are possessed. However I would've thought that a simple system that can check if multiple accounts use the same IP address, and then flags those account for review, should be in place if it is not already. Decisions can go in or out of people's favour in all walks of life. Whether you're playing a game, running a business or even a football manager. It's how you deal with a situation and move on from it that shows the character you are and of the people around you. You've been dealt a pretty shitty hand from a situation which was not really in your control, rules have been followed and some exceptions have been made. Whether the decision from our Admin team was right or wrong will no doubt continue to be debated for many more days. I certainly think we need to have a clearer definition of who is at fault when incidents like this take place. However we need to be careful that we are not leaving the door open for a team in the future to add a banned cheat to their roster and then claim they did not know about it and ask for a far reduced punishment than the one they should actually receive.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110276 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 18:24:30 +0200 Reply by Koeitje https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-7/?recent=110367#post=110181 ur supposed to rape div3 anyway, one loss won't make a difference. Get practising This decision doesn't just have consequences for TDR, it could potentially cause problems for the divisions in season 7. I hope I don't have to explain why.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110181 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:34:40 +0200 Reply by Xzar https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-6/?recent=110367#post=110175 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110175 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:03:38 +0200 Reply by Koeitje https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-6/?recent=110367#post=110161
If a cheat plays for a team, that team default loses the game. This is the reason for the default loss. This might seem like semantics but you're loading false reasoning onto the admin's decision. A team faces punishment for fielding a cheat regardless of whether the admins knew about them before, or whether the clan knew about them before. It is incredibly difficult to prove whether a clan did or didn't know about a cheater in most cases. Because of this, the rules look harsh on some cases.
So what about 2SYK/nfinity? In that case I believe they were allowed to replay their matches as opposed to just giving defaults in every case and that was far far more obvious than this instance. He wasn't a cheater. And yes it was way more obvious than this case (hell I even knew it before admins caught it). But because he wasn't a cheater and mads supposedly was, we get fucked. How the fuck we should have known they don't care about. The official etf2l policy is: If we fuck up, you get fucked.
vlad_drac the penalty point deduction has already been removed. The warning itself also serves as a warning for other clans, not just for TDR.
That 1 point wont make a fuck all difference. It's the default loss that makes the difference. How about giving us the normal points for the game and give us 1 point warning? How about that? But it seems we are being used as an example to other clans. Like other clans wouldn't know that recruiting somebody who know he is a cheater has consequences (see CdC). This wont take away my enjoyment of the game itself, but I am getting more and more worried about the way the league is being run. As soon as a good alternative to this league shows up with a decent admin crew I'm gone. Anyone that has some experience with running big communities knows you can't follow the rules blindly because it's never black and white.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110161 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:17:56 +0200 Reply by Buffalo Bill https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-6/?recent=110367#post=110156 For the benefit of a good discussion, would people who disagree with the way the admins have handled this be willing to answer the following questions please - 1. Do you believe a clan who plays a cheater in a game and can be proved to have known about it should be punished, and if so how? (rematch / points deduction etc.) Yes. Default + big points deduction, at least a major warning as well.
2. Do you believe a clan who plays a cheater in a game but cannot be proved to have known about it should be punished, and if so how? (rematch / points deduction etc.)
Rematch. Perhaps a minor warning, not sure about this part. I'm always for the "innocent until proven guilty" side. Perhaps a note on their team page saying "played with a cheater, unable to prove that they didn't know about it"?
3. Do you believe a clan who plays a player who has been banned previously and has created a new account in a game and can be proved to have known about it should be punished, and if so how? (rematch / points deduction etc.)
Yes. Default, big points deduction, at least a major warning.
4. Do you believe a clan who plays a player who has been banned previously and has created a new account in a game but cannot be proved to have known about it should be punished, and if so how? (rematch / points deduction etc.) I'd be interested to see your opinions.
Rematch. Result can never be better than the match played already (if with the banned player it was 3-3, the rematch result will be 3-3 at best for that team). Same here, perhaps a note on their team page saying "played with a cheater, unable to prove that they didn't know about it"?]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110156 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:02:44 +0200 Reply by SnowiE https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-6/?recent=110367#post=110137 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110137 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:40:14 +0200 Reply by Waster https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-6994/page-6/?recent=110367#post=110119 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=6994&post=110119 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 09:40:17 +0200