<?xml version="1.0" ?><rss version="2.0">
    <channel>
	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;gullywash in primary map pool? :&#60; oh shi&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by tarmo-</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102757</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>I don't quite like the middle on Gully, its kinda weird.

geeze, gonna play that map 5 times this season.</blockquote>

better start practicing then ;)]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102757</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 08:05:54 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Cabal</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102732</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I don't quite like the middle on Gully, its kinda weird.

geeze, gonna play that map 5 times this season.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102732</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 00:37:49 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Depch</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102505</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[You get faster to middle area in Yukon than you get in Granary.
You have a very simple and easy to def CP2 there like in Granary.
CP1 is open for snipers just like in Granary and many other maps too. 

Yukon is fine. Not just a spammers map, that's bull. The mid area is more open than Granary for example and I like it, it gives more room for stuff. I might say that comparing the middle area of Gran &#38; Yukon, GRAN is the spammers map where spam controls a lot of the play.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102505</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:40:36 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Sketch</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102501</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[yukon is a pub spammers map. that's why valve picked it. they have ruined everything else about public play in the game by making it 32 man so why not give the pub fags the space to spam in? 

Yukon isn't that bad of a map overall tbh.

 there are some interesting possibilities at mid. although i have yet to see a game where both teams don't just kind of mash in the middle and all die! its like throwing 2 pots of strawberry jam at eachother... funny but overall a colossal mess.

and like ana said but too many alleys and chokes make organisation difficult. there are 4 height levels and erm 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, etc, etc different routes to flank or spam from. and although i play scout myself i think it gives the scout far too much flexibility for totally raping. also it seems to be hard to contest the bridge once one team get control. and even harder to back cap. because of all the hiding spots for the enemy. just jumping down from bridge. on most points in valve maps you have an advantage when capping as you can see approaching enemies. Yukon doesn't seem to comply with this on any caps except last

ok changed my mind; its not a good map overall, its total shite tbh.  

btw totally agree with freelance fox arnold. its definitely not finished yet. make it more boring and add some frame rate dropping graphixy shit. and get rid of all the shit stuf thats been playtested and approved in the 100 rc's and start again. cant believe yours got in and not amazing, chokey, Yukon *facepalms*

earlier when i said suggesting we play Yukon was like suggesting we play Egypt. i was not referring to the map layout or style. I was saying Yukon was comparably Shit to Egypt.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102501</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:19:45 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Herr Braffle</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102498</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[after a couple of pcws on gully you will love it as much as badlands imo, as they are pretty similar in many cases. too bad clans are still refusing to play pcws on it, and some clans has never even played it, even though we are officially in season 6. Learn to love the new maps guys, because this game is finally progressing!]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102498</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:15:22 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by cheetah</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102497</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[gully for president]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102497</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:06:12 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Xzar</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102496</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[yukon is fucking shit, go go gully]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102496</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:03:39 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Sketch</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102495</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>- gullywash
+ obscure</blockquote>

is obscure even finished yet? i don't want to see what we had with gullywash...20 different release clients and then 50 betas and several finals! i found it a bit of a joke tbh. map is good in the end but should have done less releases 

a beta then a revised beta and then final release would be nicer. :P]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102495</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:01:49 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Anathema</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102451</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Because yukon is the most chokepointy map ever to receive a lot of praise.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102451</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:57:35 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by FreeLanceFoX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102447</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I think there's a good reason why Valve picked Yukon, and that's because it plays differently than Granalands. Just like Gullywash, after being tested by the competitive community for a long time it was called "done." Then leagues are supposed to play it. What I'm saying is, shouldn't the map that adds variety to the map pool be played before the one that doesn't? It's always better to have more maps, period, but why is Yukon being <i>excluded</i>?

Also, I think I'm allowed to have an opinion on your map even though I'm not in etf2l.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102447</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:29:31 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Arnold</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102441</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[The map is done.
It's in a league you don't even play in.
Other than a very long text that translates to me as "it's an unfinished piece of garbage" I really don't see anything useful about your post.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102441</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 04:07:16 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by FreeLanceFoX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102440</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>You are right, gullywash wasn't finished at all, I was long waiting for your comments but then again I wanted to release a final, anxious like a little kid on Christmas morning, the impatience got the best of me and I sorely released the final. Your feeling of WTF was truly justified.

I apologize for releasing it Fox I failed you, gullywash needed your infinite wisdom to fully develop into a map worthy of being named in the same sentence as Yukon or Waste. If only gullywash had been tested numerous times where players would afterwards comment and I would adjust accordingly. Unfortunately this didn't happen and we are left with an empty shell of what could have been.

I sincerely thank you for your comment, for without it people wouldn't have realised the failure i truly am.</blockquote>

You sure do make things dramatic. For a totally sincere post about how I feel your map is just not finished, you really did make my comment into something else entirely. I applaud you for that.

Try addressing my point instead of me.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102440</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 04:00:18 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Arnold</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-10/?recent=102757#post=102439</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[You are right, gullywash wasn't finished at all, I was long waiting for your comments but then again I wanted to release a final, anxious like a little kid on Christmas morning, the impatience got the best of me and I sorely released the final. Your feeling of WTF was truly justified.

I apologize for releasing it Fox I failed you, gullywash needed your infinite wisdom to fully develop into a map worthy of being named in the same sentence as Yukon or Waste. If only gullywash had been tested numerous times where players would afterwards comment and I would adjust accordingly. Unfortunately this didn't happen and we are left with an empty shell of what could have been.

I sincerely thank you for your comment, for without it people wouldn't have realised the failure i truly am.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102439</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 03:46:06 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by FreeLanceFoX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-9/?recent=102757#post=102437</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[As someone who's not even in the league, just an NA player and mapper, I kinda did a "WTF" when I saw Gullywash and not Yukon. Not only that, but I also saw Well and Fastlane... and seriously I think all the wrong decisions were made here.

Yukon is different, it plays like a cousin to Badlands or Granary because it has the same form but a different set of connections; it's perfect to include because it tests teams in a different way from Granalands. Gullywash, in my opinion, is nothing more than a Badlands remake. It's smallish and crampedish, and gives me the vibe that it tried to emulate Granaland's success. It's their step-brother. I'm not a fan of it, and I just gave up on it when I saw that no matter what happened people would support it because it was so eerily similar (just as Follower was...)

I don't see how excluding a map that is different and including one that is similar helps the league. It encourages them to focus more on nailing down the same, linear strategies of Granary and such instead of broadening their strategies and applying themselves to new maps.

Similarly, Well is just too straight-forward to have any place in a league any more. It's the most straightforward, and in my opinion, boring map there is. It's not fun to watch. I could list several replacements, but atop any list I've got to mention cp_waste, which is similar in layout but adds many more layers of strategy.

Arnold, all along I've noticed many things I could nitpick on Gullywash and never did... putting it off until later... and then you kinda jumped there and released final and I never really mentioned my thoughts (especially on the detailing). I feel a bit bad about it, but at the moment your map doesn't seem to be suffering for it. There's nothing wrong with it as a competitive map, it just doesn't seem to me that it deserves a place above Yukon or even Waste.

-FoX]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102437</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:59:12 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Freak</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-5423/page-9/?recent=102757#post=102436</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[- gullywash
+ obscure]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=5423&#038;post=102436</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:17:43 +0200</pubDate>
    	</item>
    </channel>
</rss>