ETF2L – Latest activity in “LAWL NICE TIERS”

ETF2L – Latest activity in “LAWL NICE TIERS” https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/ Reply by sacrilege https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-2/?recent=567581#post=567581 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567581 Sat, 10 Feb 2018 07:27:19 +0100 Reply by StormingSheep https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-2/?recent=567581#post=567568 Quoted from TimTum

I don't think it would be a bad thing to bring the old system back in mid. I'm not sure if that's necessary though. It's more work for the admins because the Swiss System is so much easier. It's also a lot easier for players to advance to next tiers with the Swiss System. Of course you can skip divs, but I feel like moving up tiers is so much easier. I think 8-10 divs are a bit too much, you can have: -prem -div 1 (like it is now, top high) -div 2 (high) -div 3 (low high/top mid) -div 4 (rest of mid) - low - open (fresh meat rules, for new players only)

I understand that it's a lot more complicated when changing stuff like this for the admins and its not as easy as just making it happen. I'm glad they did it for high because I think it really needed it, it just wasn't fun for many of the teams playing. I would like to see something similar with mid, low/open should be left at least. Either way admins have done a great job for this season. Quoted from Kaylus

If you say so Sheepy :) Admins told me otherwise when I did that thread but It's quite alright I'm just glad to see the current system

I'm just kidding I have no idea when the admins decided. I talked to bloodis about it a couple of times but that's about it. Quoted from Aoshi

So heck off sheepy ;)

Concerned player gives some suggestions and gets appalling abuse from a head admin. Something needs to change. Will be like french revolution but with players from countries that actually win and have respect like Scotland and Finland instead of "aryan master race but loses every race" Germans or the frenchie "5-0d 5-0d in the fastest time possible by Germany (who still lose somehow)"]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567568 Fri, 09 Feb 2018 03:37:14 +0100 Reply by freshmeatt https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-2/?recent=567581#post=567484 Quoted from TimTum

[...] - open (fresh meat rules, for new players only)

i know.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567484 Sun, 04 Feb 2018 00:11:22 +0100 Reply by TimTum https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-2/?recent=567581#post=567432 Quoted from sheepy dog's hand

[...] You played 6s season 20 in open, where the number teams that drop makes the Swiss system acceptable. I'm not arguing for divisions in open. I am arguing for divisions in mid due to the low number of teams that have dropped in the past few seasons. If you look at season 28 Mid, the teams placed 20-40 would have had a lot more of a fun, competitive season if the tier was split into random divisions of 8-10. With 7 out of 44 teams folding in mid season 28, teams folding would not have been an issue.

I don't think it would be a bad thing to bring the old system back in mid. I'm not sure if that's necessary though. It's more work for the admins because the Swiss System is so much easier. It's also a lot easier for players to advance to next tiers with the Swiss System. Of course you can skip divs, but I feel like moving up tiers is so much easier. I think 8-10 divs are a bit too much, you can have: -prem -div 1 (like it is now, top high) -div 2 (high) -div 3 (low high/top mid) -div 4 (rest of mid) - low - open (fresh meat rules, for new players only)]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567432 Wed, 31 Jan 2018 20:22:41 +0100 Reply by StormingSheep https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-2/?recent=567581#post=567431 Quoted from TimTum

So I still think I would prefer the Swiss system for at least open, but probably mid as well. The main reason to keep the Swiss system imo, is because you have better matches each week. With the old system you can get very unlucky when many teams drop out. Which means you will only play a few matches in 3-4 months. I played 6s since season 20, and out of all those matches, I only got 4 default wins.

You played 6s season 20 in open, where the number teams that drop makes the Swiss system acceptable. I'm not arguing for divisions in open. I am arguing for divisions in mid due to the low number of teams that have dropped in the past few seasons. If you look at season 28 Mid, the teams placed 20-40 would have had a lot more of a fun, competitive season if the tier was split into random divisions of 8-10. With 7 out of 44 teams folding in mid season 28, teams folding would not have been an issue.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567431 Wed, 31 Jan 2018 19:51:17 +0100 Reply by TimTum https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-2/?recent=567581#post=567430 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567430 Wed, 31 Jan 2018 19:05:49 +0100 Reply by Hildreth https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-1/?recent=567581#post=567429 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567429 Wed, 31 Jan 2018 18:24:06 +0100 Reply by StormingSheep https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-1/?recent=567581#post=567415 Quoted from Hildreth

Biggest issue of Divs = Potential for one of the Sub-divisions to be hit with mass folds and having a trash season where they only play 2 or 3 games out of 7.

This is a good point, however in season 27 only 4 teams out of 44 folded in mid and 7 out of 44 folded in season 28. I think teams are less likely to fold with this new system due to increased fun so I don't think this is likely to be an issue in high and mid and I think the system should be tested in mid before using it in low as this is more likely to be a problem in low rather than high and mid. With only 7 teams folding in mid you would not have any more than 1 or 2 teams folding in a division. I don't think this will be a problem but if it was one way you can work around it is by making the divisions bigger by looking at the number of teams that folded last season and working around that.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567415 Tue, 30 Jan 2018 19:37:46 +0100 Reply by Nykkar https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-1/?recent=567581#post=567410 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567410 Tue, 30 Jan 2018 17:33:27 +0100 Reply by Hildreth https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-1/?recent=567581#post=567406 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567406 Tue, 30 Jan 2018 16:48:39 +0100 Reply by StormingSheep https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-1/?recent=567581#post=567405 Quoted from Aoshi

Swiss works very well for everything below high as seeding everything there is a lot more difficult. Not to mention that swiss is also more automated and easier to manage for both the admins as well as the players. So heck off sheepy ;)

You don't need to seed the teams, you can take all the teams in mid and randomly split them into 6 divisions. The teams that finish top 2 in each of the 6 divisions make playoffs. If people worry that randomly splitting the teams of mid into divisions could cause a certain division to be stacked (unlikely) then make it so that the top 4 teams from each division make playoffs, this ensures that the best teams will make playoffs and the team that comes last will almost always be the worst team. It's basically like splitting the mid tier into 6 different groups so that the main season is more interesting for the players because most teams will be either fighting for a playoff spot or fighting to stay in mid and not get relegated to low. This system means that during the main season, almost every team in mid would be fighting for the top 4 playoff spot or fighting to avoid last place. You could do this with mid and low with 6 teams getting promoted in playoffs and 6 teams getting relegated by finishing last in their division. Randomly splitting mid into smaller groups where the best go on to play each other in playoffs is in my opinion a better system because almost every team will have a goal to play for in the main season. The mid team ranked 30th that have nothing to play for might instead be ranked 5th and going for playoffs or ranked 7th and fighting to stay in mid. They will be playing officials for a competitive goal rather than playing for no reason other than fun itself. There is no need for seeding, do it randomly and the worst teams will pretty much almost finish last and the best teams will usually finish in the top 2 and always in the top 4. Instead of having Divison 2, 3, 4 ect you would have "Mid 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6". This system shouldn't be too hard to manage, just randomly split the teams in mid into divisions of 8 or so and have the top 2-4 teams of each group play against each other in a playoff bracket after the main season. It would make the game fun and competitive for everyone in mid and not just the top few teams.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567405 Tue, 30 Jan 2018 15:46:46 +0100 Reply by Lolacio https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-1/?recent=567581#post=567402 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567402 Tue, 30 Jan 2018 12:37:41 +0100 Reply by StormingSheep https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-1/?recent=567581#post=567401 Quoted from Kaylus

http://etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34290/page-1/

That's great but the admins had decided before you made that thread. Quoted from Bloodis

This is a fair point but I doubt we would do anything huge about this as we already find our current system working all well and fine for the lower skill levels at least, so that the only skill level affected by the Swiss system now where this would see benefit of is high so that the "lower" high teams would actually be able to only compete against the other similarly skilled teams in their groups, while letting the top high teams play in their own division alone.

I had been pulling the strings and deciding the future of ETF2L long before your strawpoll. High teams were the ones who were really being screwed over by the swiss system. Yet I still think the Swiss System is an awful system compared to the old system or my alternative one where lower tiers are randomly split into divisions of about 8 teams where the top and bottom 2 teams of each division play a double elimination playoff system at the end. For example in "Mid" this season you could randomly split the tier into 6 divisions of 8 teams where the top 2 teams of each division make it into the "Mid" playoffs with 6 teams in the upper bracket and 6 teams in the lower bracket resulting in 6 teams being promoted to high while also competing for 1st place. Meanwhile the 12 teams that came 8th and 7th in each division also play a double elimination playoff with the 6 lowest placed teams put in the lower bracket and the 2nd lowest in the upper bracket until 6 teams are relegated. This is good because it creates more competition, goals and stakes which = more fun. 31st ranked mid team playing vs 32nd ranked mid team is more interesting if they are playing for a spot in the "mid playoffs" or to avoid relegation.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567401 Tue, 30 Jan 2018 05:12:47 +0100 Reply by Nykkar https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-1/?recent=567581#post=567399 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567399 Tue, 30 Jan 2018 00:37:36 +0100 Reply by StormingSheep https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-34645/page-1/?recent=567581#post=567395 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=34645&post=567395 Mon, 29 Jan 2018 21:59:51 +0100