ETF2L – Latest activity in “S20 swiss system matchmaking, mistakes?”

ETF2L – Latest activity in “S20 swiss system matchmaking, mistakes?” https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/ Reply by san alex https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-2/?recent=526690#post=526690 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526690 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 23:08:12 +0100 Reply by dnscodcs https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-2/?recent=526690#post=526689 Quoted from Meeto

[...] Maybe it has something to do with them only joining during the second week? Maybe they replaced dropped teams.

Exactly, they got seeded manually by admins so that we can match them with other teams in Week 2 more effectively. Otherwise they'd come into the season with 0 points and just get matched randomly with the bottom seed teams.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526689 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 23:04:34 +0100 Reply by Metal Gear https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-2/?recent=526690#post=526688 Quoted from san alex

I understood the invisible points etc But now I found this: http://postimg.org/image/ktgo6yhhd/ They have 3 points but 0 matches.

Maybe it has something to do with them only joining during the second week? Maybe they replaced dropped teams.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526688 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 22:58:04 +0100 Reply by san alex https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-2/?recent=526690#post=526687 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526687 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 22:38:42 +0100 Reply by ashnazg https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-2/?recent=526690#post=526675 Quoted from Permzilla

I'd just like to mention that the fixtures for Open will be considerable more random, since trying to determine the best 98~ teams from Open was very hard and more than likely not too accurate

Sonny would've done it PERFECTLY. 100% accuracy.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526675 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 19:19:32 +0100 Reply by Metal Gear https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-2/?recent=526690#post=526664 Quoted from RenTas

wtf is this. I can't play against shit teams and win the season(((

Yeah, no getting dumped into a sub div where all the teams drop after the first week. Such a shame.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526664 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 18:42:53 +0100 Reply by Permzilla https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-1/?recent=526690#post=526657 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526657 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 16:55:58 +0100 Reply by RenTas https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-1/?recent=526690#post=526656 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526656 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 16:41:00 +0100 Reply by dnscodcs https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-1/?recent=526690#post=526652 Quoted from RenTas

So the more you win, the stronger opponents will you keep getting until the end of season? Sounds a bit dumb.

The whole point of this new system is to try and arrange even matchups throughout the season. If you win more it doesn't mean that you'll get opponents who are stronger than you, they'll be even to you point-wise and therefore as even skill-wise as we can arrange it to be. Sure, these "good" teams will be stronger than the overall tier (hence why it's called "top" seed) but to a certain extent they should be equal amongst themselves. The season isn't an endurance. We're not trying to stop win streaks by throwing top teams in peoples ways until they lose a match. We're trying to determine how much of a top team you are yourself...and to be the best you've got to beat the best.

At the end of s20 some bad teams will be above decent or good teams just because threy got shittier match ups.

Not really. For these "shitty match ups" (e.g. fixtures vs teams who are on the bottom end of the tier) to make any difference on your overall placement of the tier they'd have to occur very consistently. To illustrate: Being a "bad" team you'd have to be placed against an even worse team, win, then get placed against an even worse team again, win etc. throughout the entire season. However ,with the exception of MAYBE your Week 1+2 matches, these kind of match seedings will never happen. Winning a previous week match will place you against a "good" team for your next week (good as in they've won their previous week match aswell, or if it's multiple weeks they got about as good of a match history as you do). So unless you are the absolute best team in your tier, or consider every team that loses to you to be "shitty", you will never face worse teams consistently enough for it to make a difference. No "bad" team will get anywhere near the top half of the tier with nothing but "lucky" matchups.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526652 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 15:21:14 +0100 Reply by ashnazg https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-1/?recent=526690#post=526650 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526650 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 14:56:53 +0100 Reply by RenTas https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-1/?recent=526690#post=526649 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526649 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 14:52:56 +0100 Reply by gilad1280 https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-1/?recent=526690#post=526647 Quoted from RenTas

So the more you win, the stronger opponents will you keep getting until the end of season? Sounds a bit dumb. cause at the end of s20 some bad teams will be above decent or good teams just because threy got shittier match ups.

what do you want?]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526647 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 14:27:16 +0100 Reply by RenTas https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-1/?recent=526690#post=526645 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526645 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 13:51:05 +0100 Reply by dnscodcs https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-1/?recent=526690#post=526643 Quoted from RenTas

And how will the swiss system work when week 3 begins. Will you just get completely random opponents or wat?

Nono,in fact it will be the exact opposite: From Week 3 onwards you should be getting more balanced games (compared to Week 1+2) since your match record for that season has developed in a way that the system can use to place you against teams that've performed equally well. Of course there can be some exceptions, for instance when default wins were involved in your previous matches, but the more the season progresses the easier it is to accurately determine each teams skill level within their tier and generate fixtures based on that.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526643 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 13:39:44 +0100 Reply by dnscodcs https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-31072/page-1/?recent=526690#post=526640 Quoted from haris

I find this quite interesting, because my team got matched up with a team that played Div 4 last season. Yea, they got destroyed there, but what are they doing in open then? Kind of unfair in my eyes tbh. http://etf2l.org/matches/56565/

Getting "destroyed" in Div 4 last season obviously means that your team is probably better off in Div 5. Just as a reminder: Open tier consists of teams who'd be considered Div 5/6 if we were to use the previous system,so being in open is perfectly fine for the team that you've mentioned. Now to answer your question: Why were you put against them in spite of being a new team? The new system doesn't take team history into account when seeding teams, aside from the invisible top/bottom seed that teams get before the start of the season, which is done manually by admins. Only your performance in the current season is used to determine which teams being placed against each other would make for the most even matchups. Your team has won their Week 1 match,just like they did. Being matched together means that ,due to your initial seed aswell as your Week 1 victory, the system has determined that the two of you should be equally skilled. Now is this an 100% correct estimation? Not necessarily. The first 2 weeks might be imbalanced in some cases,even with the accelerated pairing that we use. But that's just an inevidable part of the system,it will definitely make for more equal matches from Week 3 onwards, if it hasn't already. Read the Swiss FAQ ( http://etf2l.org/help/swiss-system-faq/ ) and Swiss Questions Forum Thread ( http://etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30781/ ), they contain important information which'd answer a lot of potential questions about the system, including the one/s you've asked us just now.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=31072&post=526640 Sun, 08 Feb 2015 13:19:14 +0100