ETF2L – Latest activity in “Submissions of logs as evidence” https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/ Reply by Jim Williams https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-3/?recent=514434#post=514434 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514434 Sat, 04 Oct 2014 21:24:30 +0200 Reply by Gubbins https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-3/?recent=514434#post=514420 Quoted from Casino
Quoted from ash
[...] No, we would roll a die or throw a coin. Did you know we now have the option to decide matches by a coinflip by the site? That’s fun! (ofc we’d watch the demo, check the logs, review whatever evidence might be relevant)
Wow, that’s really shitty… so a team who lost a game can basically claim the screenshots were faked and then it would be 50-50 if they won or lost? :/ At the end of the day it's hard to prove logs, screenshots or even demos are real...
] Please learn to read. I've seen faked demos, faked logs and faked screenshots, I've also seen bugged demos, bugged logs but never a bugged screenshot, only screenshots that people have messed up. I've seen too many logs that are messed up to trust them in any kind of official capacity. Simple question, what do you suggest when someone disagrees with the logs? With the current system if a screenshot is wrong, you can check any of 11 other players demos/screens. If there's 1 log and it's claimed to be edited, what on earth would etf2l do?]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514420 Sat, 04 Oct 2014 14:57:47 +0200 Reply by kKaltUu https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-3/?recent=514434#post=514418 3.2 Status & Scoreboard screenshots required If for some magical reason your team was bright enough not to save those required screenshots, we can do demo requests:
2.4 Every player has to record Demos
All members of our staff have played TF2 competitively for years, so if an honestly played match got to the point of coin flips, either the teams or admins massively fucked up.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514418 Sat, 04 Oct 2014 12:54:40 +0200 Reply by CHERRY COKE https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-3/?recent=514434#post=514415 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514415 Sat, 04 Oct 2014 12:23:29 +0200 Reply by Scissors-HL https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-3/?recent=514434#post=514410 Quoted from Casino
Quoted from ash
[...] No, we would roll a die or throw a coin. Did you know we now have the option to decide matches by a coinflip by the site? That’s fun! (ofc we’d watch the demo, check the logs, review whatever evidence might be relevant)
Wow, that’s really shitty… so a team who lost a game can basically claim the screenshots were faked and then it would be 50-50 if they won or lost? :/ At the end of the day it's hard to prove logs, screenshots or even demos are real...
he wasn't serious m80]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514410 Sat, 04 Oct 2014 04:38:06 +0200 Reply by Jim Williams https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-3/?recent=514434#post=514409 Quoted from ash
[...] No, we would roll a die or throw a coin. Did you know we now have the option to decide matches by a coinflip by the site? That’s fun! (ofc we’d watch the demo, check the logs, review whatever evidence might be relevant)
Wow, that’s really shitty… so a team who lost a game can basically claim the screenshots were faked and then it would be 50-50 if they won or lost? :/ At the end of the day it's hard to prove logs, screenshots or even demos are real...]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514409 Sat, 04 Oct 2014 04:33:59 +0200 Reply by ashnazg https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-3/?recent=514434#post=514390 Quoted from hr
[...] What if there was a dispute where someone claimed that screenshots and steamids were faked, would you watch an stv or POV to verify?
No, we would roll a die or throw a coin. Did you know we now have the option to decide matches by a coinflip by the site? That's fun! (ofc we'd watch the demo, check the logs, review whatever evidence might be relevant)]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514390 Fri, 03 Oct 2014 22:16:51 +0200 Reply by HR https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-3/?recent=514434#post=514389 Quoted from kKaltUu
[...] No, despite what anyone else says, we have better things to do with our time.
What if there was a dispute where someone claimed that screenshots and steamids were faked, would you watch an stv or POV to verify?]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514389 Fri, 03 Oct 2014 22:13:05 +0200 Reply by kKaltUu https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-2/?recent=514434#post=514383 Quoted from Casino
Just out of curiosity though, if someone was streaming a game on twitch and sent the VOD or a youtube video then would that be acceptable too?
No, despite what anyone else says, we have better things to do with our time.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514383 Fri, 03 Oct 2014 21:15:09 +0200 Reply by Jim Williams https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-2/?recent=514434#post=514378 Quoted from Spike Himself
If JPEGs fill up your hard drive perhaps you should check what year it is :D
Haha yeah very funny but I have other stuff on it too and it's already kinda full. I guess I'll just leave prec_screens 1 on as I don't trust myself to remember to turn it on/off. Oh and thanks to everyone for kindly taking the time to explain why logs aren't used. It's a shame I think that they can be so easily faked. Just out of curiosity though, if someone was streaming a game on twitch and sent the VOD or a youtube video then would that be acceptable too?]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514378 Fri, 03 Oct 2014 20:39:14 +0200 Reply by Spike Himself https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-2/?recent=514434#post=514347 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514347 Fri, 03 Oct 2014 13:18:40 +0200 Reply by ashnazg https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-2/?recent=514434#post=514345 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514345 Fri, 03 Oct 2014 11:58:30 +0200 Reply by fraac https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-2/?recent=514434#post=514339 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514339 Fri, 03 Oct 2014 06:11:00 +0200 Reply by Jim Williams https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-2/?recent=514434#post=514337 Quoted from ash
Firstly: we do accept logs, however due to ease of use (Screenshots = one album, logs = a dozen separate tabs you have to open, getting exponentially more complicated each time you come back to check a team's proof again) we prefer screens. The second reason is the whole fake issue.
That's totally not what I was told by another admin in the IRC unless you think I'm talking about div applications. I'm talking about match submission results.
All this for the sake of “allowing logs” when taking screenshots is SUPER easy with P-REC, there really isn’t much point.
Until P-REC is broken which happened many times recently albiet mostly out of season luckily, or the uploader forgets to set prec_screens to 1 or the screens just mysteriously disappear. Tbh I love P-REC but it has it's flaws and apart from anything else I don't want P-REC to take a screenshot of every game I have a demo of because frankly it's gonna fill up my hard drive with useless jpeg files.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514337 Fri, 03 Oct 2014 05:09:58 +0200 Reply by Spike Himself https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30408/page-2/?recent=514434#post=514336 Quoted from Permzilla
Logs wouldn't integrate with the parser in the same way and we'd have to rework the way it tracks the matches you've played on your profile. All this for the sake of "allowing logs" when taking screenshots is SUPER easy with P-REC, there really isn't much point.
It would actually be easier if anything. The only difference is that instead of parsing a screenshot, you have to parse logs.tf's json output (assuming players would provide urls to existing logs instead of/alongside uploading screenshots). It has nothing to do with how matches are tracked (what does that even mean?) - the data remains the same. It is only the way in which it is retrieved that would be different.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=30408&post=514336 Fri, 03 Oct 2014 04:37:27 +0200