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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;[PETITION] Please make evidence public&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by dAyKiLLeR</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-5/?recent=39785#post=39785</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[We already said about 1000 times we wont make evidence public and gave reasons for it.

Closed.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:25:31 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Nightbox</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-5/?recent=39785#post=39779</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[im for ;)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:11:21 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by hentai-kun</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-5/?recent=39785#post=39774</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[a).

"Oh and skinnie, admins should still initiate the ban, but provide evidence alongside it. This isn’t to make it so that every ban has to be run by the community, it would simply be to show the legitimate proof that someone is cheating. If the proof isn’t conclusive enough, they shouldn’t get banned in the first place so there’s not a problem. The evidence should be shown for the definate cases." by ARX
+1. how we can trust to admins, if they are not neutral persons, as normal judge? if you baning guy with great reputation, you need to prove your decision with evidence. i hope someday admins will show they really care about community.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:03:34 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by kaidus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-5/?recent=39785#post=39772</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Rofl, this still?

Your star player was banned. Get the fuck over it and find a new scout who doesn't cheat his way to victory instead of making the rest of the community, especially the admins, have to suffer this tireless shit.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:00:32 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by m1neraL</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-5/?recent=39785#post=39766</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[This is stupid, admins won't publish the evidence...Face it.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:34:29 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Vali</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-4/?recent=39785#post=39765</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA["Where’s the problem then, if you just release the demos to the players who (privately) ask you about it, and then tell them “there, there, that.” We wont tell you HOW we do it (because of previous reasons), but you can see it. That’d imo at least show that you #care."

Sorry Waebi but I really doubt that this would solve anything. If people aren't informed as to why what is going on is cheating then all that people would deny that it's cheating and say that it just proves their innocence. It also could have the side-effect of alerting the cheaters to what part of their aimbot or whatever was picked up on as they might have an understanding of what was going on as well. For the cheaters which are at least subtle about it, I reckon an explanation about what was happening would be needed and the admins sure as hell aren't just gonna tell everyone how they detect cheaters.

(plus telling tons of people individually how it happens would be a shitload of work as compared to telling everyone)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:32:07 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by waebi</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-4/?recent=39785#post=39761</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA["But still, you’d have to point me right to a cheat for me to see it."

right. That's where the thing i spoke of in IRC comes to my mind again. Basically you say, if you were pointed to the tick etc, you'd see it?

Where's the problem then, if you just release the demos to the players who (privately) ask you about it, and then tell them "there, there, that." We wont tell you HOW we do it (because of previous reasons), but you can see it. That'd imo at least show that you #care.

Anyone with the certain knowledge in the community could then act as some kind of "approver" for these demos (I agree with HAX, w/e), which should increase the credibility then.

In the end of the day, there are surely some people around who'd know how to prepare the demos etc, and i truly doubt they will just fuck up your "secrets" with telling. They could anyway, anytime. So?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:24:51 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Flo</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-4/?recent=39785#post=39756</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[A. I subscribe to this totally.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:20:30 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by j3tstream</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-4/?recent=39785#post=39752</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[DeNeusbeer I appreciate your comment. That shows u guys r aware and respect this subject.

I agree with u but I can say the same, someone can easily see cheats in almost everything if they really want to and are willing to believe. I think u understand my point... 

Ofc I will not believe unless I see the demos and a short explanation, at least u guys who are admins have a chance to see those, I didn't.
So now that I need evidence I am calling this community petition so that I can say with all sureness that he cheated.

In addition I think admins should be open to admit your mistakes as much as me, I will apologize ofc if u guys show me I am wrong and I'll give u guys full trust. I hope u guys act the same way around. 
I am only here fighting for the best interests of the community, yours and ofc mine.

tks

edit: I reported nike to day when he was on fake if that matters, me and master didn't want to believe so we just stood by and w8 for ur guys decision on the matter, turned out I was right unfortunatly. So I am ready to believe there was a cheating issue if someone can show it to me.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:12:21 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Exeandrey</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-4/?recent=39785#post=39749</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Ok.I am agree-too many diferent aimbots. But give me for example what signs of any aimbot have this http://rapidshare.com/files/220540758/abra_april_9_pickups.rar.html


""As admin, i’ve had the option to see all of these demos. Now i didn’t look at them all, i’m far too un-interested in that. I did look at 1 or 2 though, and i can honestly tell you, i could hardly ever see anything that i could call cheating. The only reason i think i’ve maybe seen something suspicious is because i’ve heard winneh/wlv talk about these things so much, so i picked up a few things. But still, you’d have to point me right to a cheat for me to see it.

The point here is: not everyone can see cheaters (especially if they don’t want to see it, if you know what i mean.) It takes time, dedication, and knowledge to do that. Most people will prolly see nothing different if they normally play back the demo of any of the players banned yesterday. I know i don’t atleast.

THis is also why i don’t give my opinion inl the AC thread, i don’t have a clue about it :P""

U are right! But I can see that admins have  ability to see cheats when there no any cheats....  Hm... U know this my game was nothing specia...And I Play just like that for 1 year ...All was ok/I have just few guys saying i am wallhacker)) But its dong go more then just words. And now Ban..For Aimbot...]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:07:13 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by DeNeusbeer</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-4/?recent=39785#post=39745</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[As admin, i've had the option to see all of these demos. Now i didn't look at them all, i'm far too un-interested in that. I did look at 1 or 2 though, and i can honestly tell you, i could hardly ever see anything that i could call cheating. The only reason i think i've maybe seen something suspicious is because i've heard winneh/wlv talk about these things so much, so i picked up a few things. But still, you'd have to point me right to a cheat for me to see it.

The point here is: not everyone can see cheaters (especially if they don't want to see it, if you know what i mean.) It takes time, dedication, and knowledge to do that. Most people will prolly see nothing different if they normally play back the demo of any of the players banned yesterday. I know i don't atleast.

THis is also why i don't give my opinion in the AC thread, i don't have a clue about it :P]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:00:59 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Bjuo</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-4/?recent=39785#post=39733</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[it's already a very hard job to ban someone that you just played with the other day, and that you know for long, and you offer to make they're job harder with all the protests?
our admins don't deserve this

I think they're doing a fine job, and if someone is really innocent he might aswell talk to the admins by himself]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 21:39:26 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Aye Doc</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-4/?recent=39785#post=39730</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[There are a ridiculously large number of aimbots that all function in different ways and the idea that all aimbots are accompanied by a shaking screen is ludicrous.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 21:37:45 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Exeandrey</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-4/?recent=39785#post=39729</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA["now we got some guy from ‘omg it is’ banned and their leader is desperatly trying to convince us from his innocence by releasing a pov demo … where i actually believe he aimbots in" lol from you really lol.. Have ever seen aim bot in action? It's looks like shaking screen or something like this? Isnt it?

I can repeat-I never use cheats and want prove this anyway...]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 21:36:46 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by NOT-HIM</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2868/page-4/?recent=39785#post=39728</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Just get some anti cheat runing o.O]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 21:32:19 +0200</pubDate>
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