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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;Next Highlander Season Can We Do Without Sandbagging?&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by Hildreth</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-2/?recent=368432#post=368432</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Remember it was our first season of Highlander, we didn't have too much to previously go on. I personally spent a good 5-10 minutes looking at every team that signed up (along with other HL admins) trying my best to assess your skill level using whatever tools available. These were things like 6v6 experience we could find on ETF2L, HL experience from the HCC + CommFT/UGC. It did involve checking least half the players on the screen, it gave me a feel for what sort of team/community background each team came from.

Of course we got some things wrong, not every team could be placed in the right division. We didn't know how many new teams we'd have, how many teams we should put into Div 6 - what the skill ceiling was for Div 2, Div 3...etc. When signups closed we had a criteria for each team, noting experience + performances. We divided teams into divisions that way even if some applied 1 or 2 divisions (some cases 3) too low or too high. 

What I am trying to say is whether or not you applied for Division 5 or 4, we spent time assessing your teams skill, checking your players history and everything and made a decision. Therefore it wasn't really too important last season.

However this season coming - Brand New to comp TF2 teams apply for Division 6, I imagine low 6v6 teams would be placed in Div 5, mid skilled teams Div 4-3 depending on what level they were in 6v6. Higher level mix teams we would put in Div 3-2-1 depending on their experiences. Same applies for newly formed HL teams.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 23:53:56 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by The Sniper</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-2/?recent=368432#post=368416</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Swedish Santa</i>
		<blockquote>Hmm. When we were div6, our team got into div 5 highlander just to be sure we wouldn't stomp. We did stomp every team except one, who was very equal to skill. 

I think many look lower divs just to be sure not to loose but I also think its because they (as my older team) didn't know any better. If we knew we should have applied for div4 to meet teams that were equal to our skill, we would have done that. There should be instructions on which div a team should apply.</blockquote>

How can you quantify what makes a team this div and that?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 23:08:50 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Swedish Santa</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=368410</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Hmm. When we were div6, our team got into div 5 highlander just to be sure we wouldn't stomp. We did stomp every team except one, who was very equal to skill. 

I think many look lower divs just to be sure not to loose but I also think its because they (as my older team) didn't know any better. If we knew we should have applied for div4 to meet teams that were equal to our skill, we would have done that. There should be instructions on which div a team should apply.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:23:53 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by IceRedFox</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=363061</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Jazz</i>
		<blockquote>Another way is to do a UGC and open the divs and do seeding after a couple of weeks then forcing teams to play well and not sandbag if they wish to win something</blockquote>

In soviet russia such methods are called dancing with tambourins. Also +1 for teabagging.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:03:39 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by sidude7</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=363060</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[We put Agron on Engie he lost us gravel pit damn you Agron. 

Highlander is a tricky one to judge skill as most teams have almost zero tactics (I know we didn't have any) we just death matched every game.. and the teams that seem to are in the top div haha.. 

Think admins did best they could to divide the skill, can guess dealing with teams with 9+ people is hard to determine a true skill level.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:59:40 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by reservoir_dog</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=363058</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Admirable</i>
		<blockquote>Less sandbagging, more teabagging.</blockquote>

You are reading my mind.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:41:41 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Admirable</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=363032</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Less sandbagging, more teabagging.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=20095&#038;post=363032</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:34:36 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Vanilla Jazz</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=363025</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I understand where your coming from Ruskey but the thing is it can't be enforced. The problem will always exist. It is frustrating I know of a couple of teams that last season where in div 5 and 6 and should have been up higher in the divs but as it has been said there is nothing you can do to enforce it.

Another way is to do a UGC and open the divs and do seeding after a couple of weeks then forcing teams to play well and not sandbag if they wish to win something but unfortunately this isn't the way ETF2L operate as its a different league :D

But I think its just one of those things that will always exist.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:57:03 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by weaselo</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=363022</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from lolage</i>
		<blockquote>Team div2 + chaplain on engie 2strong!</blockquote>

We only lost games when i wasnt there. Coincidence? I think not! wrangler sniping 2stronk]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:33:45 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by lolage</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=362819</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Team div2 + chaplain on engie 2strong!]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:24:11 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by FainT.</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=362817</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from atmo</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

You could force people to stay one class for the whole match.</blockquote>
atmo strikes again!

bad atmo]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:20:19 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Boeuf</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=362595</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from atmo</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

You could force people to stay one class for the whole match.</blockquote>

We're not going to do this, it causes more problems than it solves.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:35:26 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by atmo</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=362592</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Permzilla</i>
		<blockquote>It's annoying for this to happen, but it's not exactly something you can enforce easily</blockquote>

You could force people to stay one class for the whole match.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:25:04 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by weaselo</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=362555</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Is this aimed at anyone :P]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:22:07 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Hildreth</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-20095/page-1/?recent=368432#post=362553</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Well it happened a bit last season but the way our division structure is set up there isn't much we can do. If a high level 6v6 team wants to participate and off-class they can do so, we're not going to stop them just because they won't take it as seriously as other teams. However as the results of Division 1 and 2 proved - practise + dedication by HL teams was enough to beat these teams not taking HL seriously. Our division placements next season will certainly reflect that but we cannot simply exclude less serious high skilled 6v6 mixes and not mix them in with pure HL focused teams although we will be a lot more firm with scheduling and handling default dates better. If you do get grouped with a team like this I implore you to simply try your best and take what you can out of the game, you might surprise yourselves. ;)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:13:13 +0100</pubDate>
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