ETF2L – Latest activity in “How to make ETF2L happy familys again - Unlocks” https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/ Reply by ashkan https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-7/?recent=301593#post=301593 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301593 Sat, 07 May 2011 20:08:19 +0200 Reply by Boeuf https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-7/?recent=301593#post=301588 Quoted from Tapley ❤
[...] As i said before its not a purely vanilla ruleset, you're division 6 and the majority of the teams in lower divisions want to play cinnamon so most of your games will more than likely been played with the cinnamon ruleset, so whats the problem? :p. Unless you're a super srs etf2l high div team i really doubt anyone will "enforce" vanilla on pcw's, again espcially if you're searching for teams of a div6 skill, they'll just want to play games and probably dont care about unlocks. I just don't understand why people have such a hard time compramising ¬_¬.
Well I don't particularly have a hard time compromising, I just say I wouldn't play in a vanilla league. This isn't a threat, I'm just an average player who nobody will miss. I wrote the above out of personal experience. A few months ago, I was maining engineer in 6v6, playing pcw's with minisentries all around is the most fun i've had in competitive tf2. What happened was, my team learned to play with one less scout, the sentries locked down everything that tried to surprise us and we became good with this rollout. And suddenly every pcw we played ended with the other team rq'ing after the first midfight or the first round. nobody wanted to play us anymore, since than I've basically given up on comp 6v6. So my impression is not that the majority of the lower div teams want to play cinnamom, and even if they do, if theres 2-3 teams in div 6x that choose to play vanilla, why would I, as a team in that division, develop tactics around the usage of bonk or minisentries, when I can just be defaulted out of using them? I would think the only way to success is to play vanilla too. I can be wrong of course, but all I can see this rule achieve is being a soft transition into vanilla. And I'm not saying that would be a bad thing per se, maybe vanilla is the future of tf2. I'm only saying I wouldn't play in this league.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301588 Sat, 07 May 2011 19:46:47 +0200 Reply by MaxiKing https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-7/?recent=301593#post=301577 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301577 Sat, 07 May 2011 19:07:01 +0200 Reply by Skilgannon https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301558 Quoted from Spike Himself
[...] Clever. Relaying this :)
we use wordpress for our clan site front end so I know it can be done as for the clever part, female ;)]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301558 Sat, 07 May 2011 18:05:26 +0200 Reply by Alx https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301540 Quoted from MR JOHNSON
[...] A potential solution to that could be that when you sign up for the season you choose what ruleset you prefer to play van/cin and then that is the one you stick with through the season. Thus no team can tailor their strategy against specific teams (note: not strategy with regards to what unlocks to use, but with regards to which unlocks to allow in that particular game).
Yea, well that could work - but the question remains, when a team who wants cinnamon and a team who wants vanilla meet each other in a match - what will it default to?]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301540 Sat, 07 May 2011 17:15:48 +0200 Reply by verostat https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301536 Quoted from Alx
Downsides? No one will let our team play cinnamon for example, but will always check vanilla, since they know how we play. What happens if one team really wants vanilla and one team really wants cinnamon? Who wins? Vanilla does right? If one teams selects cinnamon the other team is likely to pick vanilla, since the other team show that they are stronger with, or prefer, cinnamon.
A potential solution to that could be that when you sign up for the season you choose what ruleset you prefer to play van/cin and then that is the one you stick with through the season. Thus no team can tailor their strategy against specific teams (note: not strategy with regards to what unlocks to use, but with regards to which unlocks to allow in that particular game).]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301536 Sat, 07 May 2011 17:10:10 +0200 Reply by Alx https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301529 Downsides? No one will let our team play cinnamon for example, but will always check vanilla, since they know how we play. What happens if one team really wants vanilla and one team really wants cinnamon? Who wins? Vanilla does right? If one teams selects cinnamon the other team is likely to pick vanilla, since the other team show that they are stronger with, or prefer, cinnamon.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301529 Sat, 07 May 2011 16:57:50 +0200 Reply by Dauk https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301504 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301504 Sat, 07 May 2011 15:26:02 +0200 Reply by L-iNC https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301503 Quoted from Spike Himself
What if you want to play with a different set against different teams?
Add similar option to 'My Matches' page so you can select match specific ruleset. Use the other option as the teams default selection for every match. Of course there's more issues like what if team changes their preference 5min before game from cinnamon to vanilla without informing the other team just to be dicks. Who's responsibility is it to check both teams know what ruleset you play by etc.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301503 Sat, 07 May 2011 15:23:51 +0200 Reply by Spike Himself https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301498 Quoted from Sunshine
add the option on the league sign up page?
Clever. Relaying this :)]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301498 Sat, 07 May 2011 15:03:16 +0200 Reply by Skilgannon https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301497 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301497 Sat, 07 May 2011 14:58:19 +0200 Reply by Spike Himself https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301496 Quoted from Sunshine
why not see how many teams want vanilla and how many want cinnamon?
Because there is no reliable way to do so.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301496 Sat, 07 May 2011 14:57:15 +0200 Reply by Skilgannon https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301494 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301494 Sat, 07 May 2011 14:53:15 +0200 Reply by rtsh0ck https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301483 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301483 Sat, 07 May 2011 14:26:40 +0200 Reply by tapley https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-16689/page-6/?recent=301593#post=301482 Quoted from TurboTabs
My concerns or faults I see with this ruleset are (as for cinnamon as a whole, well we have a separate topic for that..); - Teams will not bother/attempt to work out ways of using or countering unlocks in their 6v6 strategies when it's easier to just turn them off every time and perfect their vanilla play - Adds more reasons to fall out with each other/teams; For example... "Let us use Equaliser!" "No." "PPPPPLLLLEEEAAASSSEEE" "No." "Don't be a wank stain. Come onnnnnnn." "No." P.S Don't assume most of the lower div people want cinnamon, Thanks (: .
I will assume most of the lower div people want cinnamon - Speaking to most of the teams at lan - seeing most of the responces here for cinnamon (they are all low div teams) - Looking at the results of the poll (mostly all low div teams) - So with my best estimated guess/assumption most low div teams do want cinnamon - I've got a good point of view being lan admin, playing in lower divs and speaking to high div players. If you can come up with a better estimated guess be my guest - Won't be resolved till an official poll though. If you're a lower div team who likes vanilla anyway, then just pick vanilla and you play it? Wheres the problem It won't add more reasons to fall out if ETF2L set their own Cinnamon rules or (like the screenshot Spike posted) it's all done via the radial buttons, theres no arguements then its either available or not. As for teams not wanting to "find solutions/counters to unlocks" - Thats fair enough but think of it from a competative players perspective - You spend hours of your week training to be good at games and develop specific tactics to win games with the highest amount of skill, then valve puts another 10 unlocks into the game if you then force people to use this, all their hard work is ruined as their tactics may not then work. You may say "well people should make new tactics then" But if you just spend hours a week developing tactics its pointless to then scrap them all due to some unlocks, thats what makes people get disillusioned and not bother with the game. Think of all the other top comp games they have years to "Master" the game with the same guns and developing tactics, if you constantly add more variables into the game you cant "Master" the game it just becomes a free for all, which is fine for lower divs (its more fun i aggree) But you have to think about the people that don't want that. All i'll say is top teams need to think about what lower teams want (i doubt they will :>) and vice versa. People need to stop being so insular and think about it from both points of view, with TF2 constantly updating we're in a unqiue situation like no other game, so unless we all pull together and work this out the game will be torn apart tbh. (woah fuck me wall of text, watch our ARX/Kovacs i'm coming for your title)]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=league&topic=16689&post=301482 Sat, 07 May 2011 14:24:07 +0200