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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;Lawl...&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by shifty</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-5/?recent=17801#post=17801</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Locked this ridiculous topic.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:49:11 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Limon</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-5/?recent=17801#post=17799</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[oh boohoo an admin used a swear word cuz a retard was spamming useless comments, what's the big deal?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:47:16 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by deus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-5/?recent=17801#post=17794</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[BY WLV to GameFreak - You have 2 choices, Stop Spamming or Get Fucked.

Nice language for a league admin =P.

thats the kind of abuse I'm talking bout keep it comming ;). and show to all the people what kind of person you are m8. you could easy refrase it to something like.

If you don't have anything usefull to contribute stop posting.  just giving you some tips. nothing more.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:11:25 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AcidReniX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-5/?recent=17801#post=17755</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I only read the first post. But don't you understand the reasoning for this?
If every single time a team died, you moved a team up, and if every single time a new team formed, you stuck them in division 6, you might as well not have divisions and you would get division 1 reform teams playing in division 6, and you would probably have MTF.Gaming playing in division 1 right now. (Nothing against MTF, I have full respect for you guys as i've seen you in the leagues for a long time, that's why i mentioned you in this example).

Putting a new team in division 3 by your logic would be unfair on the division 4 teams. Surely one of them should get the spot before a brand new team right?? So if 4kings folded, 2 of their players quit TF2 and 4 of them went on to create a new team with 2 other high skilled clanless members, they should play in division 6? er.. no.


It's a simple matter of fact that division 1 needs to be as active and full as possible. This is because this division is sponsored and if the sponsors see 5 dropped teams at the end of the season, they probably won't sponsor the league again. If they don't sponsor the league again, the chance of getting other potential sponsors for the other divisions will drop dramatically.

Maybe in later seasons division 1 might get some money, division 2 get some hardware, 3, 4, 5 get servers for x months etc... There is a lot of potential in the future, and even if you play for fun, it isn't going to damage you fun by having prizes in a free to join league.

Admins have to make a decision as to which team would provide the best level of competition in division 1 as well as predicting which team would be most stable and least likely to fold.

Lastly, if you try to implement a system where you always move a team up if a team is dropped, new teams automatically will be forced to either enter in division 6, or oust a deserving team out of a division. Basically what i'm trying to say is dropped teams in the previous season allow new teams to enter a division where their skill level would fit in.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:29:07 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by JimmyBreeze</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-5/?recent=17801#post=17753</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[This thread is amazing. Why does this bother you so much? Some of you are posting total nonsense.

The admins are being as common sense about this as is basically possible. Div 1 needs a spot filled, so they have quickly put a tournament together between some of the best candidates in Div 2. 

What's the problem? How is this a worse solution than forcing a clan who finished 3rd in Div 2B two and a half months ago, who don't even want the spot, into Div 1? If stability is the main prerequisite to Div 1 eligibility then why weren't we invited to the tournament? Because that would be stupid.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:23:08 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by nvc</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-5/?recent=17801#post=17752</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[what the f* are you fools whining about seriously, i havnt bothered to read further than the first page but noone has earnt a place in any division, if you hadnt already noticed all the teams that were supposed to be promoted/demoted from last season, have been. Its between seasons and these are extra slots completely unrelated to your ladder histories, these should be replaced by teams, new or old, that are actually going to win maps, and not by teams that will fold because they are guaranteed a definite relegation end of season, if you think you should be in it, just get an admin to run bigger playoffs.

go play wii sport boxing and let your rage out

nvc rules, you all drool]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:16:30 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by JohnnyJackal</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-4/?recent=17801#post=17751</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I think a lot of people here are missing the point. 

First of all, let me say I 100% agree that div 1 should hold the top 10 teams. But I thought that proving yourself over a whole season, placing first; should be enough to get you up a div. 

I belive you are more div 1 worthy by winning div 2, than playing a freakin cup. Because you think you might have a chance 

Meaning winning a cup : You get promoted
Winning a div: Your not

That being said: If dmg thinks they belong in div 2, then somebody else should get the spot.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:11:04 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Anderson</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-4/?recent=17801#post=17750</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[whilst slightly off topic, 
i also feel some teams "cheat" (used in a lose sense here) thier way into divisions. 
A change of leader mid season, fold out of season, form before start of a new season and recruit some of the original cast with some new additions. Its an ongoing problem i've seen happening. 
I wouldnt be suprised to see the likes of KC/hb0da reincarnating next season expecting to hold thier divisional place. Usually its true that thier league position in previous seasons reflects thier current lineup skill , but it seems that with this type of league system it means that it often goes stale for the top half of the league.

 Wouldnt it be better to "kill" - *delete from website* -  the team completelty untill re-evaluation the next season?

Just my 50pence]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 02:31:55 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by F2</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-4/?recent=17801#post=17739</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[+1 appe]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=1640&#038;post=17739</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 01:37:15 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by blue magic</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-4/?recent=17801#post=17730</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[i think its quite simple really, dmg is the team who should be first on the list as they are proven stable and were really close to advancing to div1 in S3.
(as mentioned many times before)

if dmg do not think they are able to then get the playoff between nvs and d' , the _obviously_ strongest teams in div2, going. both are capable of holding their own in div1.

every other div2 team demanding to take part in such playoff needs to do a serious reality check, even if they know they are chanceless and they go for it out of principle.

g0d:

as for specific rules to be made in terms of replacing a team in case of a fold, i think there is no need to implement a "system" or rules, u cant possibly integrate  a  _universal_ ruleset, which is based on stability- and skillvalues.
imo  the admins just shouldnt make hasty decisions and wait for community feedback as is the case in the current dilemma.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 00:13:14 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Chewy</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-4/?recent=17801#post=17729</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Cage match between the respective leaders in international waters

sureley "division 1" is supposed to be the best 10 current teams in the community at the start of the season? If teams think they're good enough to take that spot, let them be entered into this cup or what have you, people are arguing for the sake of it right now;

this isn't football, being in one division doesn't get you better TV coverage, more money, better salary, a better stadium, if you're playing this game for fun ( which i hope most people are ) surely you'd prefer to see a team make it's respective division alot closer and have some good "Fun" matches than have them shown what for in a higher division that they might have been worthy of at the time, but now clearly arn't &#38; visa versa with good teams in a worse quality division

rules are there for a reason, but there's common sense too]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 00:07:09 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Sneis</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-4/?recent=17801#post=17728</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Team Fortress 2 teams is not like a football league, teams changes much quicker here, therefor only having "rules" where certain clans should start would not work. Getting a system that work flawless with only rules will never work.

on the other hand, i agree that nervous and d might be the most suited teams for a fight for div 1, but didnt jAgarna for example make the game a tie against druidz (and that wasnt just a pcw), doesnt that let them be a part of the fight for div 1 fight, if etf2l logic work like it does?



a little on/off topic, is there a list of all the active admins somwhere?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 00:05:38 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Iller</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-4/?recent=17801#post=17727</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I completely agree with what Agron said here :
"The purpose of the divisions is to provide everyone equally skilled opponents, not serve as status symbols of some kind, even though div 1-2 seem to have transformed into such."

But I, of course, agree on that the promotion to higher divisions should be as fair as possible. The most straighforward solution would be to take all teams that want to play in a higher division and let them fight about it ingame.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:45:50 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by toasty.</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-4/?recent=17801#post=17724</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[From my nooby perpective the system seems pretty fair.  Every one scrims so much it becomes obvious who are the strong teams just by pcw's. The play off gives people a chance to prove themselves in pressure situations.

If they put all the recently formed teams made up of div 1/2/3 players into div 6 it would obviously piss off the teams in question but also real div 6 teams like mine lol :)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:30:57 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Wlv</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1640/page-4/?recent=17801#post=17723</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Haunter points out the flaws in any gaming "promotion/relegation" league system. In this particular case (the team to replace KC), we could just check last season and see which teams came behind the 1st/2nd slots and promote them.

However since then, theres teams out there that are better and would better suit division 1. For example, we could promote a team that will loose heavilly every single week in division 1, get relegated and be pretty demoralised (and may even fold?). Or we could promote a team thats stronger and perhaps have the opposite effect. 

It's a pure catch 22 situation.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:23:38 +0100</pubDate>
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