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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;Maplist Div1&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Wlv</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-4/?recent=17181#post=17181</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I'm locking this thread for the moment as it's becoming spam/flames. Darn opened a new thread on map lists for division 1 and I'd encourage all division 1 leaders to post thier views there. I'm unaware of the impact the comments on here or on the other thread will make as I'm at work and don't have irc.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:49:59 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Darn</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-4/?recent=17181#post=17162</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[fukk off from my thread, make your own where you can spam with riemu!]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:43:21 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by d3rail__</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-4/?recent=17181#post=17161</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Just to clear a few things up:

"I havent edited/modified any of my posts"

I was refering to the fact that in your first post in this thread, your general points were that Div1 needed to be made more exclusive, and given more rights than other leagues, because lower teams don't generally care and don't put as much effort in as Div1 teams. Then, in your second post, imho you were a bit more reasonable and made better points :P

"What i was saying in this quote is simply the fact that Übersexuals or 4Kings will beat any division 3/4 team 18-0 on granary. And this is what i define as “from another planet”. Because they are already beating other Division 1 teams 10-0 on granary."

Apologies, read the previous post to mean that you thought Div2/3 skill was miles apart. Sorry

"And no, I dont say that Division 1 should play with Crits on. Crits off was introduced, because 8/10 Division 1 teams didn’t want to play with crits anymore at that time. It wasnt introduced because Division 4 teams voted for Crits Off and Division 1 teams for Crits On. So if you wanna draw retarded conclusions from my post do it right and insert the right values. And that would be: Division 1 need to play without Crits, but Division 4 teams might not need to. You brought the Crit thing up, not me."

My point was a joke. You suggested that Div1 teams should  "NOT AT ANY CIRCUMSTANCES have the same rules and maps as lower Divisions! (i.e. 3/4)", and I was trying to point out the stupidity of this statement. So you don't want the same maps as Div3/4? Ok, goodbye Badlands, Granary, and oh yeah, the entire 1st map pool. So you don't want to play with the no crit rule div3/4 teams play by? Ok! The idea that Div4 teams might not want to play with crits on is also an insult to them; stop thinking as if they're just pub noobs - there's actually a lot of decent beginner teams there who are just trying the competitive scene, way to encourage them to continue -_-

My own thoughts:

- I have no problems with Div1 voting on their own map pool - you have to play them, not us. Hopefully if done correctly, there would be some good choices of maps that were not just the couple of standard played, and would inspire lower teams to pick them up

- Generally, div2/3 teams are the most hard working in the league. They play, on average, far more matches per night, spend a lot of time working on tactics, and are just generally more active within pickups that Div1 players. Reason? They aspire to be in Div1, and until they get there, are putting in the extra effort to try and build their skill, create new tactics. 

- Darn: The reason people generally care about Div1 is that often, decisions made there filter down into the lower leagues. As well as this, lots of Div2/3 players want to eventually play in Div1, and settings in Div1 only could create a barrier for those unused to them.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:41:00 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Darn</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-4/?recent=17181#post=17160</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Im not denying this luxury from other divisions, still dont see how this would affect anyone from other divisons. So please only opinions from div1, others make your own awesome threads!]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:39:33 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Riemu</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-4/?recent=17181#post=17159</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[You guys cant be serious, that has to be a fucking joke

The only reason why Division 1 wants a "special ruling" on this is, because the majority of all other Divisions don't want it. They didn't want any of this in the past. And admins will always take all Divisions into account when thinking of mappools and rules.

The reason why Darn asks for Division 1 changes is just because it's way more likely to happen for Division 1 than it is for all Divisions. It's not like Division 1 wants "the good stuff for themselves" lol, it's because we won't get it otherwise.

Fixed Maps, correct Mappools and great Fixtures are an issue since Season 1 and it hasn't changed in 3 Seasons yet. lol]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:37:13 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Tupi</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-4/?recent=17181#post=17156</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[That decicion will affect other divisions sooner or later, even if you want to belive it doesn't affect other div's.

My point:
If div1 gets special treatment, so why shouldn't the other div's too..   some clan's will accept it, some won't.

but that's just a guess..

(edit bad english:P)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:01:39 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-4/?recent=17181#post=17155</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[div1 players are trying to keep all the good stuff (fixed map list) for themselves ;x]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:00:13 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Darn</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-3/?recent=17181#post=17152</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[why do you care what happens in div1?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:50:12 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Tupi</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-3/?recent=17181#post=17150</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Why you want to make Div1 like ESL and apply their rules too ? 

Aren't most div1 clans allready playing in there too ? 

i'm just curious..]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:38:33 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Agron</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-3/?recent=17181#post=17149</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[For an inactive muppet, you seem to have had a lot to say lately, Crusa. 

The reason why some div 1 teams pick funky maps is not that they have practiced those maps. They haven't played those maps anymore than the clan they picked it against. They just recognize they have no chance of winning in the usual maps, and believe that a random map that no one ever plays will increase their chances :]
They value (the optimation of the % of ) winning more than having fun...because no one can't seriously claim to have phun in 2fort etc.

edit: xtala, I think you are ignoring Riemu's point on purpose. Ofc he doesnt think that every clan in div5 just plays for shits and giggles. He meant to say that the % of such teams in a div increases in lower divs.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:37:32 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by xtala</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-3/?recent=17181#post=17148</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Although I can see your point Riemu, I totally disagree with your statement that all clans below div2 play for fun rather than competition and that a lot of them like maps like goldrush.

I'm in a div3 clan myself, and I'm quite sure that every single member dislikes playing those maps.
Hell, even Eejits² (who were in div5) disliked them.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:37:24 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by dunc</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-3/?recent=17181#post=17145</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[The discussion for a fixed map list in other divisions should be taken to a new thread - take a vote or something, clan leaders only.

This is a formal request to the ETF2L admins to change the Division One map format to a set list. Seven of nine clans in the division have clearly stated that they wish to change to this format and I think the admins should take heed of that.

I think the top division clans have put enough in to the league to warrant a fairly minor change to the structure of their division. I would hate to see teams dropping out of the league because such a change wasn't put in to place :(]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:35:19 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Crusa</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-3/?recent=17181#post=17138</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Riemu you are saying that clans are considering dropping because they don't wan't to play some maps? You do know that you are playing against other div 1 clans that have picked those maps?

This makes me wonder why they have picked them. Is there some actual reason to choose those maps or is it just random map picking? Maybe the reason behind the choice is that the team who has made the choice to play some "non standard" map thinks they have an edge on that map because they have practised that map.

Then other div1 teams come and whine that you can't pick that map because it is not good and we can't play it. Please pick Granary or Badlands that we can play, please. We will quit if you don't pick one of these maps! Seriously I'm warning you!

In every map both teams have equal chance of winning. It is not like your team is in big disadvantage just because of the map. If you are in a disadvantage it's because the other team knows the map better and that IMO is the true sign of the pro clan that they can adapt to new things and not just whine if someone throws something new to their face.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:17:09 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-3/?recent=17181#post=17134</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[@riemu
Your whole post is based on your assumption that anything under div2 doesnt strive to be better and likes maps like dusbowl. 
Lets take a look at the stats shall we.

Map picks from the primary map pool:
div1: 86%
div2: 93%
div3: 93%
div4: 91%
div5: 92%
div6: 86%

makes me wonder....


EDIT: w/o fastlane
div1: 84%
div2: 82%
div3: 86%
div4: 85%
div5: 83%
div6: 78%
Lower division like primary maps just as much as div1 does.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:53:46 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Moose</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1591/page-3/?recent=17181#post=17125</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Majority of users on ETF2L voted fastlane to the primary map pool while pretty much everyone in div1 would want to see the map removed entirely. That tells you something.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:30:38 +0100</pubDate>
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