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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;draws please, no golden on map 1 and 2, only on map 3&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by Admirable</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-5/?recent=271035#post=271035</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Ripple</i>
		<blockquote>imo no need for a golden cap in a season. this is e-SPORTS and normal SPORTS also have draws on leagues. just 1:1, where's the problem. on cups it's fine as it is with gc.</blockquote>

Normal sports are played on the same environment, for example football is played on a regulation football pitch.

TF2 is played on a variety of maps, some more prone to draws than other.

So we work on the assumption that all draws are not equal in their accomplishment, draws should be abolished! :&#62;]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 01:00:43 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Ripple</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-5/?recent=271035#post=270895</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[imo no need for a golden cap in a season. this is e-SPORTS and normal SPORTS also have draws on leagues. just 1:1, where's the problem. on cups it's fine as it is with gc.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=15394&#038;post=270895</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 17:11:03 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AcidReniX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-5/?recent=271035#post=270891</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I don't actually mind the hold middle golden cap. People see it as a problem, I see it as a game of king of the hill, where there is an option to snap an early victory by capping all 5 points.

If a team is holding middle indefinately, they are putting a huge risk on themselves. The enemy team can wait until there is 40 seconds left on the map, and have a final all or nothing attack against the enemy team. Most mid points are also easy to get into, so the 'defenders advantage is minimal'. If the enemy team does cap middle, there is no opportunity for the defending to retake it. It is a much smarter idea to continue playing the round because having middle is a bigger advantage if you are trying to cap the last point / not let the enemy cap yours.

If you push from middle to 4th, and you fail the push, you risk losing the mid point before you are all alive again. In the event of a wipe, you risk losing your 2nd CP as well, and in the event of a wipe where the enemy team still has their uber, you risk losing the round.

If you push from 2nd to middle, and you fail the push, you almost definately lose your 2nd CP, and in the event of a wipe (doesn't even need to be a complete wipe), you lose your last CP as well.

This is why it is not a smart idea to push from 2nd to middle, and why most teams don't do this.

If a team decides to try and hold middle for say, 5 remaining minutes. That's a long time the team currently on CP2 has to suicide players in, or use pick classes to get a key pick (the medic). I think it's only smart to hold the mid point in a golden cap if there is very little time left and you are too concerned that your next CP push could fail.

I beleive we lost a game this season because we sat on middle with 2 minutes remaining, and in the last 40 seconds the team pushed and capped middle. We were even in a position to push CP2 once we had won middle but we chose not to. Big mistake :P

Anyway, I don't see the current system as such a bad thing. There are alternatives of course, but I guess the principle behind it being a bad thing is because it is actually quite random who will have middle at the end of 10 mins, and because a team knows that they only have to hold middle, they play the game a lot more passively than usual.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 17:08:16 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Koeitje</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-5/?recent=271035#post=270877</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from beta</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

As most would agree, this wouldn't be a bad idea but lets make a little twist


Overtime / Golden Cap...10 minutes 
First team to capture all 5 points (standard)

If there is no winner after 10 minutes / stalemate, SIMPLE...map restarts.  New 10 minutes.  This will encourage teams to attack if they have the middle point secure instead of sitting back as they will loose their advantage.

Mike</blockquote>

This is what I'm hoping for. Endless game? I doubt it. There will be a mid-fight eventually where one team gets whiped.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:21:11 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-4/?recent=271035#post=270873</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[The last 10 minutes of obscure were more exciting then the 30 before imo :p]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:15:03 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by kaidus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-4/?recent=271035#post=270868</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[People don't care because a thousand people don't show up to watch your divisions final only to see a shit heap.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:56:55 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Skully</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-4/?recent=271035#post=270682</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Dr-GimpfeN</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

i bet the 15 stalemate hold mid wins happened all on Premdiv and Div1 and Div2</blockquote>

+1

No insults to the high div players, but if a div6 guy complained about this, it wouldbe thrown out the window faster thenthe rubbish bag. This is the 2nd prem match in 3 weeks where after a GC a forum post is made. The system is fine, if you can't get all 5, get mid, if you lose mid, your own fault. Until we go to the first to 5 in normal play, deal with GC]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:37:27 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Pinky</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-4/?recent=271035#post=270668</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[AFter a match give each team points/a score = (number of rounds won/total number of rounds played)*100(or whatever)   (in the regular season) 

Wouldnt work for play-off stuff ofc; they could be done american style with win_limit 5? maybeh. 

I have no idea if this is even relevant whatsoever, I am drunk, belgian, tired and breakdancing.


INB4 <a href="http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z123/Platinumgamer164/StephenColbert.gif">http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z123/Platinumgamer164/StephenColbert.gif</a>]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:17:14 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Daggial</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-4/?recent=271035#post=270500</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[the golden cap on map1 and map2 are good during the season (to assign 2-1 points instead of 1 each only), but not for the final deciders (maybe round difference would be better for playoffs/finals)
the real problem here is how the golden cap is played btw. caplimit 1 &#38; timelimit 0 is more simple and no stalemates can happen]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:09:13 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by freshmeatt</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-4/?recent=271035#post=270498</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Decider map, go.
http://etf2l.org/forum/maps/topic-15401/page-1/?recent=270495#post-270495]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=15394&#038;post=270498</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:06:05 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Crasp</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-4/?recent=271035#post=270491</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Crasp</i>
		<blockquote>Away caps!

(Assuming the current map pool) Each team picks one map and eliminates 1 map. Of the remaining 2, the admins (or something impartial :p) decide which will be the decider.

First 2 maps count as home/away legs, so if it's [A 2-2 B] on team A's map and [A 1-1 B] on team B's map, team B wins.

If after 2 legs the teams are still tied, the decider is played with timelimit 0 winlimit 2.

:D</blockquote>

Still the best alternative imo (but not better than the current system).]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:59:48 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by beta</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-4/?recent=271035#post=270488</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Admirable</i>
		<blockquote>Infinite overtime until one team caps.
You can break it up in whatever intervals you like, but please lord make a golden capend in an actual fucking cap!

?</blockquote>

As most would agree, this wouldn't be a bad idea but lets make a little twist


Overtime / Golden Cap...10 minutes 
First team to capture all 5 points (standard)

If there is no winner after 10 minutes / stalemate, SIMPLE...map restarts.  New 10 minutes.  This will encourage teams to attack if they have the middle point secure instead of sitting back as they will loose their advantage.

Mike]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:55:09 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by CannonFodd3r</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-4/?recent=271035#post=270486</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[premier:
14 total
decided via cap
11
undecided after 10 minutes
1
screenshot missing
2

div 1:
7 total
decided via cap
5
undecided after 10 minutes
1
screenshot missing
1

div 2:
14 total
decided via cap
13
undecided after 10 minutes
1

Also (only prem-div2):

cp_granary
total 9

cp_freight_final1
total 8
undecided 2

cp_badlands
total 7
undecided 1

cp_obscure_final
total 7

cp_gullywash
total 4]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:43:20 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Permzilla</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-4/?recent=271035#post=270477</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Koeitje</i>
		<blockquote>I meant stats per div. And actual middle hold victories.</blockquote>

We held mid in our golden cap against 9 men scandinavia on freight in div6 :)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:27:39 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Koeitje</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-15394/page-4/?recent=271035#post=270475</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I meant stats per div. And actual middle hold victories.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:23:48 +0100</pubDate>
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