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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;r_aspectratio allowed?&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by Defur</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-5/?recent=17986#post=17986</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I think, r_aspectratio 2 should be allowed. The rest should be limited, since I heard about this i havent stopped playing with it since its easier to play, well, everything i guess.
So I personally dont think this should be "Banned" if its only on 2, maybe 3+ should be limited?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:19:45 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Tony Montana</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-5/?recent=17986#post=17482</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[just wtf?

having it like that doesn't make you better.

it does has the pros and cons.

i often play with aspectratio 2 and yes i see more, and F2 did well by posting screenshots, however, you should try to post screenshots with people in the pic, you would see how it's hard as hell to shoot.

so i see more, but the aim is fucked, the scout looks like a stick.

why reporting it and why banning it, if it's just the same thing... it's just like the bobcycle...]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:30:15 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by ruke</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-5/?recent=17986#post=17481</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I come from Q3 where alot is allowed in the config.
I must agree that in TF2 it's a different thing because of the classes you have. Not every class would gain the same advantage from a fov increase. Demo, Soldiers, Medics the most - Scout/Sniper not much at all for Scout its rather a disadvantage.
On the other hand, why not? Sensitivity is allowed too - with an ultra high sensitivity you basically have a 360° view - aiming gets harder but well, that also applies for higher fov. With a super low sensitivity you aim alot better but you need an extra armlength just to turn 180°.

Edit: I just read in another comment here that rocket jump scripts are allowed. This however is ridiculous and should be banned right away. If you can't rocket jump you can't and no script should be allowed to fix that for you. You can lose games from a failed rocket jump and that should also count. If you weren't able to do the rocket jump in that crucial moment - well so it is. Penalties in football also have to be shot every time and no one can come and say: come on, everyone knows I will score - can't we just skip it and give us the score already?
Wow really, how someone can defend scripts but wants aspectratio banned is far beyond me.
Btw, aimbots are basically also only "scripts" that do what you also already can do. Just flawless.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:20:53 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by str8outtaCompton</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-5/?recent=17986#post=17458</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Yup, it's not a personal rant to anyone really :p]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:32:09 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by GibbZ</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-5/?recent=17986#post=17429</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA["Maybe you just gotta l2p and move your mouse faster then. Anyway, it’s pointless to get in the details. The impact of r_aspectratio doesn’t make the game pointless to play for scouts, even if it gives a slight disadvantage.

Even if scouts would be rendered useless (which it totally doesn’t, you’ll never convince me on that), the game would still be there. Look at half of the classes in 6vs6 TF2 anyway: Sniper, Engineer, Spy, Pyro are all more or less special situation classes, depending on the map.

Purists, losers and whiners (I myself consider them to be one group ;) want to ban everything in the game they don’t like, especially if something changes. That’s because to them, change is SCARY!! Other people will adjust their own play and see where the game takes them. If r_aspectratio will cause significant flaws in the gameplay in the way that the game as a whole becomes dull and/or noncompetitive, then of course it will be banned.

Why in your opinion was the game so much better before people noticed this command? I see currently no serious impact on the game by r_aspectratio and I still refuse to believe that any big change will occur in the class balance because of it."

Read my posts.

Oh yes I did say about how I HAVE NO OPINION ON THIS SO I'LL PUT DOWN BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT

:D]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:04:51 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by j3tstream</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-5/?recent=17986#post=16593</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[This is a game by valve, if they want to change they do because it was made by them. And we have to be subject to updates.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:09:10 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Riemu</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-5/?recent=17986#post=16586</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[why are we even discussing this

lol]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=1327&#038;post=16586</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:21:18 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Morty</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-5/?recent=17986#post=16585</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Personally, i didnt know about the benefits.
I use r_aspectratio 2 cuz the weapons looks more kewl, a bit like FoV, cuz you see more of your weapon.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:11:01 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by str8outtaCompton</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-4/?recent=17986#post=16582</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Maybe you just gotta l2p and move your mouse faster then. Anyway, it's pointless to get in the details. The impact of r_aspectratio doesn't make the game pointless to play for scouts, even if it gives a slight disadvantage.

Even if scouts would be rendered useless (which it totally doesn't, you'll never convince me on that), the game would still be there. Look at half of the classes in 6vs6 TF2 anyway: Sniper, Engineer, Spy, Pyro are all more or less special situation classes, depending on the map.

Purists, losers and whiners (I myself consider them to be one group ;) want to ban everything in the game they don't like, especially if something changes. That's because to them, change is <strong>SCARY</strong>!! Other people will adjust their own play and see where the game takes them. If r_aspectratio will cause significant flaws in the gameplay in the way that the game as a whole becomes dull and/or noncompetitive, then of course it will be banned.

Why in your opinion was the game so much better before people noticed this command? I see currently no serious impact on the game by r_aspectratio and I still refuse to believe that any big change will occur in the class balance because of it.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=1327&#038;post=16582</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:01:12 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by GibbZ</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-4/?recent=17986#post=16523</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[yea... it means u dont have to move your mouse and MISS another doorway in the time it takes.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=1327&#038;post=16523</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:43:10 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by xtala</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-4/?recent=17986#post=16520</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[@Compton: It doesn't really have anything to do with moving the mouse, you can keep an eye on 3 instead of 1 or 2 exits, meaning no flanking by scouts etc.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=league&#038;topic=1327&#038;post=16520</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:07:50 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by kitty jones</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-4/?recent=17986#post=16490</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[we better ban fov_desired as well. lets all play with 75 because we may could gain visible advantage by setting it higher. it's also funny that the same person who reports this to valve thinks about breaking the fov limit with his tftrue plugin.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:09:26 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by str8outtaCompton</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-4/?recent=17986#post=16483</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I'm not saying they should be banned. I'm against on banning any of them.

RJ script can be executed manually, but it requires your hands more physical attention than just aim+mouse2. RJ script also makes the jumps more consistent.

Fastswitch DOES benefit some classes more than others. The difference is extremely minor, but it TECHNICALLY does affect class balance. Therefore, if everything that changes class balance should be banned, hud_fastswitch should be banned with the same logic. As I already pointed out, this kind of rule would be mindless.

And you could use your own "laziness" argument with the aspectratio command, too. You could say that people are just too lazy to move their mouse back &#38; forth.

I'm not saying directly that r_aspectratio is good for the game or that Valve shouldn't take a look at it. My point is, making rules for a gaming league isn't as simple as "i feel this is wrong so let's ban it and make sure it won't happen again".]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:34:22 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by GibbZ</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-4/?recent=17986#post=16440</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA["Such as:
- RJ scripts (boosts low skilled soldier)
- auto-reload scripts (boosts mostly soldiers)
- hud_fastswitch (fast weapon switch is more vital to some classes than others eg. engineer doesn’t get hurt by this much)
- changing from default cl_interp (more useful to scouts/snipers than to other classes that can just spam out the difference most of the time)"

Your view is completely negated by the fact that all of these things are physically possible by using SKILL. The fact is rocketjumping can be done by executing a movement and pressing a button, the reload script adds no real advantage because once again it is just a press of a button (people just being lazy in honesty). As far as hud_fastswitch goes... that's just a terrible argument. It doesn't effect the classes at all. If everyone has it on OR everyone has it off then there is a mutual benefit, and PLEASE do not use cl_interp as a beneficial command. It's a standard netcode command used to smooth play or to make your game more accurate. It never gives scout or snipers a definate advantage, they still need to AIM. 

The fact is the r_aspectratio command takes no skill. It's merely a command which increases the FOV with the effect of squishing the screen. This ofc serves the medic and demo alot more then other classes. 

I'm not gonna argue for it to be put out the game completely like I said in my other post. I just feel that everyone has to put BOTH sides of the argument into context.

Allowing r_aspectratio in / uncapped means medics will have an easier time staying alive. This means scouts have less chance of being an impact on the game. Because if I'm not mistaken now scouts are meant to prioritise demos and medics of which this command does benefit the most. This will in turn change how the game flows. It may be a slight impact but it is an impact nevertheless (&#60;- an actual word btw).

Removing it tho is like yea G_G shit monitors. And then you can take nvcs argument.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:58:52 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by str8outtaCompton</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-1327/page-4/?recent=17986#post=16411</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[What's the use to distiguish between the developers intentions? There isn't a logical point to it. Some people prefer to use r_aspectratio, some people don't. Why not let them, as long as it's in the game and the game stays competitive?

Rules should be determined by logic, not because it "feels wrong" because the developers possibly didn't mean to put it in the game.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:33:06 +0100</pubDate>
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