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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;TF2 Public Play - Improvements&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
    	<item>
    	    <title>Reply by Koeitje</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-2/?recent=153931#post=153931</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[A 12v12 cup with no class limits would be fun tbh.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:08:42 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Black_Bob</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-2/?recent=153931#post=153930</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Had a great 15 vs 15 community match tonight Crazy vs Trigger Happy Gamers, we only had one rule in place which was a medic limit of 2, this kept the game fluid no massive uber stalemates and no teams went mental using 10 demomen.

It was awsome fun pub servers allow all class's to excel spys, pyros and heavys were being used to great effect which in a 6 vs 6 this hardly ever happens. 15 vs 15 also allows some more intresting maps to be played which just seem to big for 6 vs 6. 

ETF2L should host a 15 vs 15 cup for all the teams whos egos are small enought to allow more than six people on the same mumble channle :P Since theres only around 10-12 teams around big enought to host such teams it would be easy to run as well.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:06:16 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Sketch</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-2/?recent=153931#post=153353</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Inuy</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

tl;dr;dc &#60;3</blockquote>

fuck you]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:30:29 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by xInuy</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-2/?recent=153931#post=153352</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Sketch</i>
		<blockquote>People who play tf2 play it coz its funny, silly, has lolstickies and you can be invisible and set ppl on fire.

Reasons why people doent play med, demo, soldier?

medic can be boring quite often. if your team sucks you will die a lot and there will always be 3 pesky spies after your ass. Often when you uber or kritz, the stupid bugger your healing cant hit a thing.

Soldier can be very hard in a public for inexperienced players. its slow, and super weak, heavily reliant on medipacs and the medic. often cant get our of a rush situation due to slow output of damage, damage reliant on decent aim, self damage and slow speed

Demoman has better output of damage. Its inherent weakness for a pub player however is its lack of an easy to use close range weapon. its a difficult class to pick up for average joe. especially in a server with 32 men rushing about.

other reasons:
-your team doesn't have a medic or doesn't have enough medics.

-the medic you do have hasn't yet realised that his full buffed heavy doesn't need any more health while he is stood next to that dispenser.

-you can make a more significant impact as an engineer, spy, scout, pyro, sniper  because you wont self damage have greater speed on the ground. This makes other classes more like other fps games  i.e. you can make a significant change in the way the game is going on your own and you are self sufficient. solly and demo are none of these as they require constant buffs to get into positions with jumps and self damage heavily in close range battles.

my suggestions for pubs would be.
-more graphical pointers and announcer shouting to give players an objective.
-an option for a medic to set a team push marker (similar to the pointers you place for your team in brothers in arms.) where a flag would be placed in the ground like the soldiers buff banner one. Once this is in place all players would have an objective arrow.
-reduced self damage when shooting rockets or pipes / stickies
-uber charge stops building when a player is full buff
-announcer shouting at medics when their team has 5 players within a certain radius who are low when he is healing a fully buffed player.
-minimum of 1 medic for every 5 players on a team
-every player healed within 3 seconds of their medic being back-stabbed gets penalised with -5 points
-medics who get back-stabbed get a quicker re-spawn than a normal kill.

not all great ideas but i think some have merit.</blockquote>

tl;dr;dc &#60;3]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:22:14 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Sketch</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-2/?recent=153931#post=153348</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[People who play tf2 play it coz its funny, silly, has lolstickies and you can be invisible and set ppl on fire.

Reasons why people doent play med, demo, soldier?

medic can be boring quite often. if your team sucks you will die a lot and there will always be 3 pesky spies after your ass. Often when you uber or kritz, the stupid bugger your healing cant hit a thing.

Soldier can be very hard in a public for inexperienced players. its slow, and super weak, heavily reliant on medipacs and the medic. often cant get our of a rush situation due to slow output of damage, damage reliant on decent aim, self damage and slow speed

Demoman has better output of damage. Its inherent weakness for a pub player however is its lack of an easy to use close range weapon. its a difficult class to pick up for average joe. especially in a server with 32 men rushing about.

other reasons:
-your team doesn't have a medic or doesn't have enough medics.

-the medic you do have hasn't yet realised that his full buffed heavy doesn't need any more health while he is stood next to that dispenser.

-you can make a more significant impact as an engineer, spy, scout, pyro, sniper  because you wont self damage have greater speed on the ground. This makes other classes more like other fps games  i.e. you can make a significant change in the way the game is going on your own and you are self sufficient. solly and demo are none of these as they require constant buffs to get into positions with jumps and self damage heavily in close range battles.

my suggestions for pubs would be.
-more graphical pointers and announcer shouting to give players an objective.
-an option for a medic to set a team push marker (similar to the pointers you place for your team in brothers in arms.) where a flag would be placed in the ground like the soldiers buff banner one. Once this is in place all players would have an objective arrow.
-reduced self damage when shooting rockets or pipes / stickies
-uber charge stops building when a player is full buff
-announcer shouting at medics when their team has 5 players within a certain radius who are low when he is healing a fully buffed player.
-minimum of 1 medic for every 5 players on a team
-every player healed within 3 seconds of their medic being back-stabbed gets penalised with -5 points
-medics who get back-stabbed get a quicker re-spawn than a normal kill.

not all great ideas but i think some have merit.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:57:51 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by TopGear</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-2/?recent=153931#post=153347</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Thanks F2, nice idea but I dont really play on many russian public servers I like my low ping ;p  But would be interesting to see how it works and whether people enjoy playing on it.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:49:26 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Koeitje</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-1/?recent=153931#post=153333</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Because one div5 skilled soldier/demo can handle 4 to 6 pyro/spy/sniper]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:51:09 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by SnowiE</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-1/?recent=153931#post=153331</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I'd like to see them give extra incentives for playing as a medic.

In Q3F/ETF the team scores were entirely separated from individual scores, which were entirely related to kills. This meant on public play, the incentive to play well and get to the top of the scoreboard was almost entirely unrelated to how well your team did, for example a chain concing scout capping 1 flag a minute still ended up at the bottom of the scoreboard because they hardly killed anything.

TF2 fixes this a little by giving points for kill assists and objective capturing, meaning the medic is almost always at the top of the scoreboard even if they're not particularly good. I think they could go further by increasing the item drop percentages for high scoring players. They could also reduce the percentages for low scoring players, this might nullify some of the 'benefits' of being on idle servers all the time as well as rewarding good players.

Maybe we should be asking why isn't it as fun for most people to play soldier/demo/medic as it is to play spy/sniper/pyro?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:48:29 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by F2</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-1/?recent=153931#post=153327</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[TopGear, there actually is a russian server which implements some of the things you suggested. It has 14 slots and there has to be 2 scouts, 2 soldiers, 1 demo and 1 medic (I think) before anyone can go support classes. The map rotation is granary, badlands and some other 5cp maps. It is not perfect but maybe it's worth a try -&#62; 194.106.196.112:27015]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:29:39 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Sub_ZerO</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-1/?recent=153931#post=153324</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[My expirience is kinda diffrent coz when i go pub and i want us to win i just tell em what to do (voice) and they mostly listen even though if you do an airshot or some fancy stuff you will have a personal medic with you 24/7.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:11:56 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by DominiX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-1/?recent=153931#post=153321</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I can see the point of some limits of utilities, like 4-5 snipers/spies is pretty much enough. Everything else is just going to depend on what players are playing in your and oposite team, do they comunicate, do they try to do the goal, i.e. cap,push,hold etc. People don't like being limited, especially on publics, they come to play for fun, maybe have a laugh, have some fun offclasses with some mates etc.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:06:55 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Peio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-1/?recent=153931#post=153318</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Perfect public server for me:
- 32 slots
- No class limit
- Crits ON

If I want to play seriously, I play 6v6.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:52:17 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by TopGear</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-1/?recent=153931#post=153316</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[The whole point of this topic was to develop ideas to enhance and improve the overall public play experience. And to make it more fun and enjoyable, personally and from other people that I speak to, public play simply is not fun to play, unless as mentioned you are on a server with more experienced players that know what to do. So what can be done to improve and enhance this?

If one team is "stacked" either via skill or more usually a class imbalance then how can this be improved upon. Currently class limits can help resolve this issue to some degree, but still you will have people who want to play a particular class unable to do so because of the limits imposed upon them. I'm not saying a min class limit is the way to go, but what would you like to see on a public server, what would make it more fun to play on]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:46:19 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Iller</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-1/?recent=153931#post=153309</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Trying to make the people on the public servers play serious is very much a waste of time.
Belive me, I've tried a lot..

Everyone seems to hate to loose and often ragequit when they are on the loosing team or try to change to the winning team, but they don't want to contribute anything to the team's success themselves (generally speaking, there are exceptions of course).

They main problem is not that they are newbies, but that they simply don't try or even care until that "you failed" voice from the lady is heard :-).
If you have class limits, people will just leave to a server where they can play sniper/spy.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:28:28 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by iQue</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-9060/page-1/?recent=153931#post=153308</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[The entire point of public servers is that you can do whatever you want. Having a balanced team should definitely be encouraged and rewarded but having hard class limits and leaving players stuck with a class they don't like, or just isn't very good at, is just bound to make players ragequit.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:26:50 +0100</pubDate>
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