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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;Illegal v Dignitas in WASM GRAND FINAL SECOND MAP about to START&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by AcidReniX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-5/?recent=143760#post=143760</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Buffalo Bill</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

From Moose's post, it sounds like he wasn't ALLOWED to Pause. Not that they didn't want to but they couldn't. Seems retarded to 'call them out' for unsportsmanlike behaviour for something they had no choice in.</blockquote>

Obviously if this is the case then I take back any calls for unsportsmanlike behaviour, but from seeing other teams pause, it seemed like they were allowed to, or if they weren't... they just... did anyway.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:05:20 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Moose</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-5/?recent=143760#post=143719</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Keep in mind Arx that you were watching through STV. You don't see the exact moment of the pause with that because of the 90s delay. I saw like three or four of the crashes and they were all paused after the round win, but other teams finished these rounds way more quickly against 5. We just kinda failed with our pushes since it took that long.

Tbh the second medic crash was pretty meaningless since there was less than 2 mins left at that time, still possible to cap on Well but very unlikely. But yeah, that first crash happened in an awful time for them and on top of it, it took like 5 minutes for us to cap the last point which ran the clock out on the map. We didn't do that intentionally though. TCM just defended quite good with 5. Not the way I would have wanted the match to go, especially when no real difference was found on Granary either.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 14:15:23 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Cross</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-5/?recent=143760#post=143701</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[To avoid disappointment, clarify rules beforehand.

Just forget about it and let it be a lesson tbh.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:54:18 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Buffalo Bill</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-5/?recent=143760#post=143700</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from AcidReniX</i>
		<blockquote>
Since the rules apparently say that you can't pause mid-round, no one is saying you did anything wrong, it's just bad sportsmanship that you wouldn't pause during a non action time and took advantage of something that was beyond the enemy team's control. If this was an online competition, you might be able to blame the individual for building their computer like a noob, but this was a tournement PC, they were not responsible for the crash and you took full advantage of it.

Ultimately the crashes could have been the key in you taking cp_well. The second crash was unlucky as it was their medic during setup time meaning they had no opportunity even with a pause to try to take the last round as they would have had no uber even if the game was paused immediately, and that was their round to try and make a comeback to tie up the game.

In short, you could have paused twice without effecting your game after taking a CP, other teams did it in the competition but you followed the rules to the letter. You did no wrong except for show bad sportsmanship (The correct term would be 'not show good sportsmanship').</blockquote>

From Moose's post, it sounds like he wasn't ALLOWED to Pause. Not that they didn't want to but they couldn't. Seems retarded to 'call them out' for unsportsmanlike behaviour for something they had no choice in.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:26:08 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AcidReniX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-5/?recent=143760#post=143698</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Moose</i>
		<blockquote>Watched the stv demo from the bronze game with Arx / Pure / Exfane cast and I have to say that it was a really nice cast but you are wrong when you say several times that other teams instantly paused in the tournament when someone crashed and it was bad sportmanship from us when we didn't.

I only missed watching the first 2 matches of group B but I followed all the other games and afaik the only crashes happened in the playoffs. In those cases, I'm certain that the rules were enforced and no team paused before the round end like you claimed. For example TCM got a round against Dignitas on Well while Diggy was playing with 5. Like I said before I actually asked the TF2 admin standing behind my back before we pushed in to CP 2 if we are allowed to pause now and he said "no, rules clearly say that pauses are only allowed during the round change".</blockquote>

i'm afraid that's incorrect. There was at least 1 crash in every game that I casted that day. When a player crashed they didn't wait until the end of the round, they paused the game when there was no action going on, this was normally simple because the team with the crash was the attacking team and didn't want to push without their player, so they simply paused until he got back before making the push. It meant that the clock wasn't ticking and they weren't simply locking down.

In your game, you were in the middle of the counter push when the crash occurred and no one would have expected you to pause at that time. You had just defended CP2 afaik and were pushing out to CP3. You cleaned up most of the players on CP3  (including the crashed player on the balcony) and then proceeded to push to CP4. The crash was made aware of before you got to CP3 and there should have been no reason why you couldn't have paused inbetween taking CP3 and attacking CP4. 

Since the rules apparently say that you can't pause mid-round, no one is saying you did anything wrong, it's just bad sportsmanship that you wouldn't pause during a non action time and took advantage of something that was beyond the enemy team's control. If this was an online competition, you might be able to blame the individual for building their computer like a noob, but this was a tournement PC, they were not responsible for the crash and you took full advantage of it.

Ultimately the crashes could have been the key in you taking cp_well. The second crash was unlucky as it was their medic during setup time meaning they had no opportunity even with a pause to try to take the last round as they would have had no uber even if the game was paused immediately, and that was their round to try and make a comeback to tie up the game.

In short, you could have paused twice without effecting your game after taking a CP, other teams did it in the competition but you followed the rules to the letter. You did no wrong except for show bad sportsmanship (The correct term would be 'not show good sportsmanship').]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:08:35 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AuguR</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-5/?recent=143760#post=143697</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[anyone got a demo of diggy tcm game?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:05:41 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Moose</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-5/?recent=143760#post=143674</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Watched the stv demo from the bronze game with Arx / Pure / Exfane cast and I have to say that it was a really nice cast but you are wrong when you say several times that other teams instantly paused in the tournament when someone crashed and it was bad sportmanship from us when we didn't.

I only missed watching the first 2 matches of group B but I followed all the other games and afaik the only crashes happened in the playoffs. In those cases, I'm certain that the rules were enforced and no team paused before the round end like you claimed. For example TCM got a round against Dignitas on Well while Diggy was playing with 5. Like I said before I actually asked the TF2 admin standing behind my back before we pushed in to CP 2 if we are allowed to pause now and he said "no, rules clearly say that pauses are only allowed during the round change".]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 07:07:53 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by tapley</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-5/?recent=143760#post=143673</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Come to i39 if you want a tourny with decent rules and 2 studley admins boyz.

p.s. Nice final!]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 05:18:26 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Spaceboy McGhee</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-4/?recent=143760#post=143671</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Great casting guys, really enjoyed it :D Shame the final wasn't closer but the Diggy vs TCM semi was absolutely epic :&#62; 

The rules with the lack of golden cap in the bronze final were extremely strange but if the organisers wouldn't allow it then I guess that's their prerogative, as baffling as that may seem :s Much as I don't want to appear like some sort of gibbering fanboy I think people should have a bit of a think about things before casting blame on Pwr as it seems highly unlikely to me that someone such as Moose, who puts an unbelievable amount of time and effort into working for the best interests of the TF2 comp scene, would suddenly jeopardise all that by acting in an unsportsmanlike manner merely in order to secure 3rd place.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 05:04:34 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Moose</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-4/?recent=143760#post=143664</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from eoN^</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

Isnt it kinda daft that they had to go online to check the rules?...

Just me that would expect someone with a clue being there admining it?</blockquote>

No, they went online to see if the rule was any different for some odd reason in the English version of the rules since they clearly knew how it was set in the original Finnish version. They just suspected a mistranslation or something since both teams were so surprised about it.

And for the rest, here's what I wrote to hyku earlier:

<blockquote>First off, we (Power Gaming) asked the admins if we're allowed to pause the game before pushing in to second after Coinz' crash but we were told no as it says in the tournament rules that pauses are only allowed between rounds which is the common rule everywhere in Euro TF2.

Second, the no golden cap rule was apparently purposedly done like this because all the other pro tournaments at Assembly are part of WCG qualifications, and their rules state that maps can end as a tie in playoffs as well unless it's the decider map. Why this would then affect TF2 when it's not a WCG game is beyond me as golden caps are used everywhere in TF2 tournaments. Of course, we told the admins we'd like to do the golden cap since that's the common practise but this kind of tournaments with several game titles and lots of money on the line tend to follow their rules very strictly so I wasn't expecting them to let us do it and I was right. </blockquote>

So if you ask me hyku, your ramblings against us are all utter bs. Next time try using your brains first before you start flaming ppl when you know absolutely nothing of the situation.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 04:04:18 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Arie</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-4/?recent=143760#post=143656</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[For those of you who've missed the matches/shoutcasts, I've recorded shoutcasts of the Bronze final and the final and bundled them with the STV. You can get it here: http://fakkelbrigade.eu/archives/1819/assembly-shoutcast-recordings-stv-demos]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:11:33 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Serious Cat</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-4/?recent=143760#post=143654</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[deffo nice win by dignitas and well-played by all.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:07:55 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by source144</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-4/?recent=143760#post=143653</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[gg, nice mid air on badlands end of 1 st round on medic by appe :D (2nd cap, diggy attacking)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:01:32 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by M24_</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-4/?recent=143760#post=143647</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[gj to dignatis! quite the lan :D]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 01:33:29 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8625/page-4/?recent=143760#post=143643</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Great matches, awesome casting. Really liked how close some matches were.


The rules being different to the normal bo3 ones was a little disappointing though. Most spectators were expecting an epic golden cap :)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 01:12:48 +0100</pubDate>
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