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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;Damage adjustments&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by Sigh</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139819</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Anyone considered class limit 1 ? just thought id throw that out there. I know this is 6v6 and not highlander, but introducing classes like the pyro, or heavy as a must, would allow for a far larger variation in tactics, though this could be a very for obvious reasons.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:53:51 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Admirable</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139794</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I thought he Demoman was limited to 1 because of the Stickybomb Launcher's ability to hold chokepoints.  Basically no matter how much you tweak that weapon (with in reason), two Demoman will be able to hold two chokepoints.

So in terms of 6v6 DL1 can you really expect to balance the Demoman to be on a level with other classes?  Even though the Demoman is capable of dealing massive amounts of damage, few players seem capable of reaching these max damage levels. 
The number of top Demoman pales in comparison to the number of top Scouts or Soldiers, partly because of the classlimits we have imposed but also because it is a more difficult class to play!  The Stickybomb Launcher has notable delays in firing (charging), detonating and reloading. So whilst initial DPS is potentially high the Demoman is often quit vulnerable, which is why the best Demomen are those who think ahead and anticipate.

We shouldn't forget that the Demoman is one of the few reasons why Uber advantage isn't all conquering.  His ability to slow down the attackers and induce the early Uber are big factor in stopping every round from being decided on middle.  Although as Arnold points out this is part of the inherent imbalance of the Medic(Uber) and Demoman classes; the unstoppable force vs the immovable object :D

Undeniably, as Fragga and Haunter say, reducing the Demoman's power would speed the game up and reduce the potential for stand-off situations; it would just be straight Uber advantage wins.  How can you seek to balance the Demoman's ability to deal damage without drastically rebalancing TF2 as a whole? Which was perhaps where atreides was coming from? Do I have a point? Probably not.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:24:56 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139753</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>
Yes because huntsman and dead ringer are the really controversial weapons in this dead.</blockquote>You would think so if you read how many people want vanilla tf2.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:09:05 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by kluniQ</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139718</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote>
Letz see what americans are doing oh wow they play the game how it is; without unlocks till end of the season, sounds cool rly.</blockquote>Americans are actually using new unlocks (like the huntsman and dead ringer) from time to time instead of trying to get them banned.</blockquote>

Yes because huntsman and dead ringer are the really controversial weapons in this dead.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:40:16 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139716</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote>
Letz see what americans are doing oh wow they play the game how it is; without unlocks till end of the season, sounds cool rly.</blockquote>Americans are actually using new unlocks (like the huntsman and dead ringer) from time to time instead of trying to get them banned.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:35:07 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by SeBB</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139714</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Decreasing damage of weapons makes the game only grandfather friendly -.-

Damgage of Skatter, Shotgun and Rocket Launcher should be not changed. I do not like getting one-shotted but 4 shots on a heavy as scout or 3 for a 200 hp soldier is ugly....

Roaming heavy will get so effective .... nvm .... 

Letz see what americans are doing oh wow they play the game how it is; without unlocks till end of the season, sounds cool rly.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:31:09 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Waster</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139582</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Everybody has his own opinion. Thats fine, but we cannot even agree of the weak aspects of the week. The community seems divided per class. Soldiers saying demoman are OP, medics say scouts are OP, scouts say soldiers are OP or the uber has to big impact on the game. If you dont like class, DONT PLAY IT. Why not play the other class instead. Especially fragga with his endless amount of whine. 

I dont think there are particular classes overpowered, i never see weak players top the scoreboard while strong players with another class are on the bottom. Its always the player behind the class thats the most decisive. 

The biggest problems for TF2 are IMO the fan, TDH and the maps. Fan seems solved after the big nerf. TDH is still bugged with this minicrit and i wont judge the weapon before its fixed. The game has hardly good competive maps to play. A good map like badlands, granary or gravelpit is more welcome then class changes and unlocks.

We can better agree on the weak aspects of the game INSTEAD of whining, spamming personal opinions without reading others and suggesting changes without analyzing shortcomings of TF2 first.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:50:38 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by toasty.</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139575</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Arnold,

I see your point. The problem people seem to have with the demo is both traps and using stickies like a rocket launcher.

If you nerf the demo so much we go back to dl 2 that creates it's own problems. Remember the original tcm tactics on badlands with byte and topgear as demos. Even reduced amounts of stickies and a reduced damage count would still mean camping.

I basically agree with your premise on the class standings though.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:35 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Arnold</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139566</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I love these comments they are so witty]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:56:40 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by UPS</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139549</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Deleted.

+1 to remove the bomb from css. It's overpowered I tell you!]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=8448&#038;post=139549</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 04:59:58 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by nvc</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139542</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[How about you remove everything except the heavy, medic and engineer updates - that was the perfect game :)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 03:36:42 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by ajc</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-5/?recent=139819#post=139540</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[let's remove the bomb from css, because that is the point of the game. 
We need to fix the scope in cod4 because it must be op because it's limited to one.

i like demo cos i can right click, and get ez kills. so plz dont nerf it]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 03:07:34 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by cheetah</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-4/?recent=139819#post=139527</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[people should learn after 2 yr how long a uber really is]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 02:09:13 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by honeymustard</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-4/?recent=139819#post=139524</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[People should just use bonk more.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:52:34 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Arnold</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8448/page-4/?recent=139819#post=139523</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Fragga is right.
I brought up this issue some time ago in the beta project before being flamed by the americans that got into beta without actually understanding the game.

Scout needs a slight decrease in damage.
Demoman really needs his massive defensive and offensive powers fixed.
Medic uber should not be such a big decider.

This will not result in pure deathmatch on the contrary it will allow people to actually change classes maybe remove some limits and make the game more interesting.

I find it so funny that this game has barely changed from the start, i don't understand why you would want to keep a class so powerful it requires a limit rather than alter the class and remove the limit.

Is the fact that the demoman has such massive defensive and offensive power and thus limiting it to 1 making this game so enjoyable?
Is the 10 second all deciding uber and every team handling a medic 24/7 really making the game much more fun than it would be if it was a viable option not to run a medic?
I also think the scout shouldn't be able to deal this much damage although i don't think it requires a big change.

Anyway i think fragga is right, and too bad these changes will never happen.

And a team that has no teamwork will always lose against a team that has teamwork, even if the classes are equally matched (god forbid)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:43:29 +0100</pubDate>
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