ETF2L – Latest activity in “TF2 Update (06/01/10)” https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/ Reply by skinnie https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=140134 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=140134 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 16:21:13 +0100 Reply by Limon https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=140120 Terrible bait Arx :D The argument against the FaN was always that it knocked opponents up for an easy meatshot, taking control away and leaving people feeling cheated i.e. it was cheap. The Scattergun does not impede opponents or make successive shots easier for you or your teammates. +11111111111111, james basically put together my thoughts there.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=140120 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 16:11:16 +0100 Reply by Ka0s https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=140119 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=140119 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 16:01:53 +0100 Reply by Admirable https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=140038 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=140038 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 13:08:11 +0100 Reply by kluniQ https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=139999 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=139999 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:47:43 +0100 Reply by deeffyy2 https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=139997 it's still lame +1]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=139997 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:46:18 +0100 Reply by jonni the juicy jew https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=139992 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=139992 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:35:56 +0100 Reply by Memento Mori https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=139987 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=139987 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:09:55 +0100 Reply by AcidReniX https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=139986 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=139986 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:00:58 +0100 Reply by iQue https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=138182 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=138182 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:14:18 +0100 Reply by ilike2spin https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=138177 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=138177 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 19:59:30 +0100 Reply by SEB https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-16/?recent=140134#post=138176 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=138176 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 19:57:43 +0100 Reply by wpminnows https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-15/?recent=140134#post=138174 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=138174 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 19:48:47 +0100 Reply by AcidReniX https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-15/?recent=140134#post=138173 The sticky launcher is the most effective weapon in the game and was less frustrating to play against than the FAN in the past. The FAN was frustrating because it gave the target very little chance to fight back once the scout hit the first shot. Effectiveness =/= Frustration. Point taken.
The changes have mostly effected scout v scout duels. A scout using the scattergun has a clear advantage. The close range 2 hit burst hasn't changed much, the only real difference is that you have to aim the second shot now.
But see, that is the problem. The FaN has less shots so they made it easier to hit the 2nd to give the FaN extra burst damage (it's advantage over the scattergun). The scattergun still can deal the same damage but is harder to use. The scattergun rewards 'skilled players' by allowing them to do nearly the equivilent damage of the FaN but also additional damage if they hit their other shots as well. While this makes the FaN easier to use to get off a single burst, in order to keep up with the damage output of a scattergun scout you need to be 100% consistent with maximising that burst damage and even then if a scattergun scout hits all of his shots, it is still by far the most effective weapon of the two (The reward for being skilled). We all know the FaN is easier for players with a worse aim (it was designed like that), but it also has a cap on how effective it can be which is much lower than the scattergun. This makes it a harder weapon to be effective with, especially at the top levels where scouts are consistently hitting the majority of their shots. Not only that, but if a FaN scout misses that first shot, his damage output is not only halved, but on average, it is reduced below half as the second shot isn't a setup meatshot. This makes it more of an all in weapon and you pay for your mistakes. The FaN is going to be more effective in lower divisions, in most cases, where the scattergun scouts aren't consistently hitting the majority of their shots, but there's a lot of weapons like this. The huntsman is a typical example. The sniper rifle is clearly the more effective weapon, and it's harder to use (to be very effective you have to hit a heatshot and you suck at close - point blank range). You are rewarded with extra damage and the ability to kill targets at any range providing you are accurate. I'm sure in the very lowest divisions in terms of the skill of players the huntsman is probably more effective in a 6v6 than the sniper rifle. I don't see the problem with that though. Different weapons have always had skill ceilings, so have different classes. A heavy in the lower divisions is much more effective than in the higher divisions. Is that a problem as well? The FaN is limited to 1 in matches, one class, one player is rarely going to determine the outcome of a match, especially when we are talking about a weapon which both teams CAN use. Either way, the FaN _has_ been changed, i'm just stating why i dissaprove of the changes. Who knows, maybe in the long run i'll become better with it, or maybe I'll work on my scattergun playstyle and try to improve. But well done community on restricting the viable options we have even further ;) One dimensional game, here we come!]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=8380&post=138173 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 19:47:14 +0100 Reply by Haunter https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-8380/page-15/?recent=140134#post=138167 Haunter, before you pop the cork on that victory champagne dunc handed you (apparently arguments are decided on his word, like that guy from mortal kombat 1 that sat in the middle and pulled the puppet strings), i'm pretty sure nothing arx said in his post was moaning, in fact if anything he proved his own point by saying he uses it because he enjoys it. I honestly don't see where he moaned and i challenge you to point it out as well, but i'm sure skinnie will pop up before long and say "OH NICE ONE VLAD THANKS FOR SHOWING YOU'RE A RETARD" in an authoritative manner which no one dares question and dunc will give him a winners medal too. I'll slow it down for you dunc: the gun had slightly better dm capabilities than scatter + movement and versatility. They take away the knockback which reduces its dm and versatility. So now the gun has a fair bit worse dm, movement, and less versatility. Gun is now worse than before. Oh and no one's moaning. I appreciate you trying to supply my part in the conversation, but you're no robert deniro, you really didn't capture the essence of vlad. Vlad wins, end of discussion Hey this is fun! Edit: Arnold just outlined the same things as arx also without moaning, it IS possible to say an unbiased evidence based review on something without it being moaning. The irony being you moaning about him moaning when he didn't moan. Don't worry skinnie, i've got it covered for you in my next post.
The difference is, I don’t and won’t moan about it. I play the game as valve sets out :P I don’t care for this update, some of the changes sound good!. At least if people get killed by my FaN scouting now they shouldn’t have a reason to bitch about it.
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