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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;American wanting to know how to use Heavy (aka "Euro Style Tf2")&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by AcidReniX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-2/?recent=5399#post=5399</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[With reguards to a 'stacked heavy lineup' (1 scout, rest heavy classes), you loose a lot of map positioning at the start. It can work, but its hard to keep track of 2 scouts constantly jumping around and harrassing you, and unless you are against a team well below your skill level, your 1 scout isn't going to be able to hang on his own against 2 on the mid point.

It can work, but it depends on how effective their initial scouts + demoman attack is before the heavy classes arrive.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:06:54 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AcidReniX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-2/?recent=5399#post=5398</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[The heavy is still just as effective as it was, but it relies on the strength of your existing team. Basically, the disadvantages of the heavy are many. Slow moving class which means slower reinforcements, absorbs damage (its a pro and a con but a heavy often requires full time healing which diverts your medic from the rest of your team), low manouverability means he is stuck on the floor, on a cap point.

The only advantage of using a heavy, and this is important, is to move the enemy off of a CP. If your heavy moves out onto the point, with just his medic, he is dead against any half organised team.

What your heavy needs to do, is move onto the point to absorb damage, with the rest of your team also moving onto the point.

It takes the full attention of 2 damage dealing classes (soldier, demo, scout), to take out a heavy comboed with a medic, a heavy combined with another class can defeat 2 soldiers in a heads up battle. Because of this, the soldiers are generally forced to move backwards, reload, get ready for a full on attack as soon as the heavy jumps onto the point.

It is at this time, that you're team has the advantage. Map positioning is everything on the mid point of any CP map. On granary, if you box them into a corner, they have pretty much lost that fight, but obviously you need to capitalise on it.

How to use a heavy effectively in your team. (Example, granary)

- Stay alive until heavy gets onto the point (the hard part)
- Move heavy with medic (only when overhealed) onto point, rest of team must also have a pressence.
- Force the enemy backwards into a corner, or kill anything that approaches.
- Surround that corner, and use your demoman and soldiers to spam and keep the enemies health down.
- Scouts pot shot from mid range and attend to anything that has escaped the 'corner of death'.
- Don't go over aggresive, just keep firing into the corner keeping their HP down so they can't make a full overhealed push onto your team (2 soldiers with 200 HP are obviously weak compared to 2 x 300 hp).
- When they uber, they will escape the corner, but 9/10 times you will uber afterwards, and they will fall straight back into their corner.


It is a hard strategy to master, a 2 soldier strategy can usually mean 2 independent teams of 2 scouts and 2 soldiers, with the demoman tagging along with either of them. A heavy strat relies on full team co-ordination to be successful and thus it's less successful... most of the time.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:03:19 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by veehell</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-2/?recent=5399#post=5396</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[a) What is the best method of using the heavy? Should they be out in front or in back of the line?
- as the hwg is too slow, you are forced to keep him behind ona map without gates and setup times
- usually medic take care about all clanmates in front of him and hwg should rush rush rush to be at place when uber is ready

b) What maps are the heavies good at and which should we avoid using heavies?
- personally LABOR(2heavies are awsome), gravelpit (for defense on B it is still usable), sometimes GOLDRUSH and BADLANDS (for clans with more developed tactics) --- you can even force second team to take heavy as well
- for well, granary i do not recommend to use heavy unless is skiled and your clanmates survive more without one supporting class

c) Would a 2 soldier, 1 heavy, 1 scout, 1 medic, 1 demo lineup work? Or should it only be 1 soldier, 1 heavy, 2 scouts, 1 medic, 1 demo? 
- if you have good scout you can leave it to hunt the medi or demon as used to
- if you have not so good scout, leave him as medic guard with one soldier

d) Where can i find some good demo’s of heavy play (and which clans use them well?)
- cadred, or look around the National Cups demos (ESL/ETF2L)

On the end, you are usually forced to change some of the classes to "sniper/engi/spy/pyro" at some special situation, so finally you can't have fixed lineup/classes for all matches. Sometimes you have to change it during play. Our hwg is learning scout and soldier for instance.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:51:41 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Wlv</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-2/?recent=5399#post=5346</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[The main problem with the above line-up as it leaves too many heavy classes for the medic to heal, meaning at least 1 soldier is left alone by your medic. If you are going to run a heavy, I think the "standard" setup is 1sol 1heavy :)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:40:32 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by PedoBear</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-2/?recent=5399#post=5342</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA["c) Would a 2 soldier, 1 heavy, 1 scout, 1 medic, 1 demo lineup work? Or should it only be 1 soldier, 1 heavy, 2 scouts, 1 medic, 1 demo?"

1 scout against 2 enemy scouts would be a fail. I really think, the real cause for using heavies less is what infusion said, the sollies and demos can be in the middle point 2 or 3 times faster than heavy. Thats just one of the situations where heavies have a disadvantage.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:44:54 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by toasty.</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-1/?recent=5399#post=5340</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Its kind of a shame how the game is constantly shrinking in terms of classes used. Really enjoy watching snipers/spies/pyros etc at a high level.

Oh yeah and riemu and sommie are the 2 worth trying to find demos of. I think because of updates all riemu's are probably broken (unless you have files backed up and play in offline mode). Sommie played for sweden recently though I think, check here:

http://www.cadred.org/Media/Demos/?page=1&#38;cat=80&#38;letter=

Oh and for maps - its pretty much either last point on wellnary or dustbowl/gravelpit like has been said.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:08:51 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Phokus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-1/?recent=5399#post=5339</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Thanks for the tip guys, do any of you know how to get in contact with Riemu? Judging by his video, he looks very talented.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 06:49:15 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by foil</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-1/?recent=5399#post=5333</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[See if you can get Riemu a giving you a heavy demo or w/e. The guy knows probably the most about the class + he played at the highest level with a very good performance.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 05:18:14 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by xtala</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-1/?recent=5399#post=5332</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I mostly play hw in my team, and if played correctly it can make quite a difference.
A hw is like a huge magnet for the enemy team to fire upon, which means your teammates can operate more safely, make a safe retreat.
It is also quite easy to shred an entire team when attacking the last cp on a map.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:42:19 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Dr. Sellrion</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-1/?recent=5399#post=5331</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I think, heavy is dead for team's main lineup. But it is still a wise decision to use heavy in some situations. And that decision still can bring you a victory. If that decision was wise, of course...)))]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:35:22 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Wlv</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-1/?recent=5399#post=5328</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Basically what infusion said, the heavy was a dying class well before the kritz got a speed boost, people also learnt how to deal with a decent heavy as well where-as if you run 2x sol there is more combinations you can run in certain areas etc, shame, i miss my ac :(]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:17:45 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Infusion</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-1/?recent=5399#post=5327</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I think heavies became a dying breed when soldiers and demomen improved :)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:11:17 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Renegade</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-1/?recent=5399#post=5321</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I think heavies mostly faded out because of how strong the kritzkrieg became. Its pretty much rock paper scissors countering, because really the crits allows any class to own a heavy up, because his health means nothing but two grenades or rockets, he cant escape/ dodge.

It also didnt help that his new weapons pretty much fail.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:39:50 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Animal</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-1/?recent=5399#post=5320</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA["euro style of switching one soldier out for a heavy"

i loled :D

u can switch to heavy on defence, like on gravelpit or last point, but thats just it...]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:29:05 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by ONlock</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-726/page-1/?recent=5399#post=5319</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I think a HW push on last point on f.ex. well, granary, badlands, is great! if you have an uber and the defenders don't, its very easy to kill them since they have to get on the point to defend, just let the medic half cap it, then they'll come running. And with the minigun in close range, they are dead in half a second.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:17:34 +0200</pubDate>
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