ETF2L – Latest activity in “Dead Ringer Ban Discussion”

ETF2L – Latest activity in “Dead Ringer Ban Discussion” https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/ Reply by Toooost https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-11/?recent=559321#post=559321 Quoted from .zero

After reading parts of this thread I'm still looking for a valid reason to ban it. Can someone enlighten me? Who exactly voted to ban it?

Ignore "bias", there hasn't been one. Toucans and high teams voted for its ban, BMS n chess were the only proper teams to vote for the double ban. I feel the "arguments" for the double bans were also very weak. Same goes for short circuit. 12% of prem teams this season voted for the current whitelist, and 62% voted for no-bans.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559321 Sat, 29 Oct 2016 21:06:00 +0200 Reply by FromZero2Hero https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-11/?recent=559321#post=559319 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559319 Sat, 29 Oct 2016 19:50:08 +0200 Reply by kKaltUu https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-11/?recent=559321#post=559317 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559317 Sat, 29 Oct 2016 18:55:44 +0200 Reply by StormingSheep https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-11/?recent=559321#post=559310 Quoted from ondkaja

[...] "complaints of their community" != a few guys writing essays the admins are under no obligation to respond to the senseless garbage that gets posted in this thread.

This doesn't make sense to me, the majority of people here complaining are very top level highlander players who understand the game mode, people like steve and hildreth are 2 of the best highlander players in the world and know far more about highlander than you do so how can you call it "senseless garbage"? I think it's a good idea for the admins to read and take the opinions of top level players seriously because it's not "senseless garbage" and the top level players usually know more about the game than the admins. Also ppl complain about no skilled players on admin squad and i've applied like 10 times and every time rejection so what do you expect.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559310 Sat, 29 Oct 2016 03:12:10 +0200 Reply by Danton https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-11/?recent=559321#post=559303 Quoted from Steve!

You're absolutely right Chronos. I assumed that in the discussion I was surrounded by players that had the same level of understanding of the game as me. That was clearly not the case for some of them, or at least they didn't make the effort to appear knowledgeable on the subject. Hopefully you've been able to extract some knowledge from my posts here. Stinson, I'm more than happy to talk over the reasons I left the admin team with you but this isn't really the time and place to do so P.S. It's hard to be 100% sure about a vote when you are given 2 minutes to think about your answer. If anyone was 100% sure about it, they either gave it much though beforehand or made a rash decision. I didn't consider developing arguments for banning the DR a good way to spend my time because to me the weapon is not OP. And I have not heard arguments from the side that did feel this way at the time of the vote.

Regardless, of your opinion on anyone else's thoughts (and you made it quite clear during the meeting that you had no interest in taking in any other opinions), I feel that coming out now with all these opinions of yours is too little too late when you could have tried to be constructive and helpful during a conversation with fellow team leaders instead of just acting like a belittling idiot. Maybe I expect too much from you, presuming from when I started following highlander that you and the rest of highpander were more humble. I respect your ability as pyro but when it comes to differences of opinion you need to put forward coherent arguments when decisions are being made when you were just saying how you and your team thought the dr ban was fairly reasonable instead. Now we should all just respect the outcome. Other veteran prem players did vote on, and a convincing decision was made in favour of dr being banned for reasons spoken of and listed]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559303 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 22:14:43 +0200 Reply by Ond kaja https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-11/?recent=559321#post=559302 Quoted from Hildreth

[...] This is my definition of a complaint: [...] Your opinion of "senseless garbage" is subjective, you basically can't be bothered to read it and/or don't understand the points raised and/or don't feel they are important to you. But they're important to me and important to others.

i didn't refute that they are complaints, i refuted that they are "complaints of the community". it's just a loud minority complaining, therefore the complaints aren't representative. the reason why they shouldn't respond is because you are just asking a bunch of loaded questions that can not possibly be answered in a neutral and professional manner, hence my wording, senseless garbage.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559302 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 22:03:48 +0200 Reply by Hildreth https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-11/?recent=559321#post=559298 Quoted from DCS

Also there seems to be a misunderstanding towards the obligations of admins. Our job is not to read through all the threads on this website answer possible questions. If you wish to talk to an admin, you are welcome to use our support ( IRC). And even there we don't HAVE to answer questions that don't need urgent answers. These public forums are for our users to discuss matters. Sure, most admins will have a general idea of what is being discussed, but that doesn't mean they have to actively be involved. Not even in our feedback forums we have to answer. Feedback forums are for... well feedback. That means telling us what you think about certain things. Here we are obliged to read the discussion, yes. But not necessarily respond. Although I do admit all in all it feels better if we do respond at some point. But I don't think it is fair to say it's our job

I agree with some of your sentiments, and appreciate the answer but you should still answer this question: What is the purpose of the whitelist?]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559298 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 20:56:49 +0200 Reply by Hildreth https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-11/?recent=559321#post=559297 Quoted from ondkaja

[...] "complaints of their community" != a few guys writing essays the admins are under no obligation to respond to the senseless garbage that gets posted in this thread.

This is my definition of a complaint:

: 'Any expression of dissatisfaction, whether oral or written, and whether justified or not, from or on behalf of an eligible complainant'

Your opinion of "senseless garbage" is subjective, you basically can't be bothered to read it and/or don't understand the points raised and/or don't feel they are important to you. But they're important to me and important to others.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559297 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 20:54:55 +0200 Reply by Toooost https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-10/?recent=559321#post=559289 Quoted from Chronos

Shame steve didn't say any of these arguments in the discussion and instead said he was unsure about the vote and focussed on shit talking. It would have been nice to have had a more mature debate

Steve said he was against the ban. One shouldn't need to argue against a ban if it hasn't been banned anyway, especially for the period of time it wasn't, unless proper arguments for it are brought up, which didnt happen. The whitelist is the way it is because people have thought about it and discussed it. A change in it needs justification, it needs a reason. The only reason Bureau brought up for the ban was that I said that it should either have been No-ban or DR-ban. Even in the post discussion you didn't bring any reasoning up, nobody did. What khazul said wasn't as much an argument for the DR ban, as much as it was him agreeing that it could be annoying in some way, because teams have a hard time killing DR spies, which has now been argued against. Another thing is that most of the discussion involved sniper, which is strange because the only thing this whitelist achieves is massively lowering diversity in playstyles, nerfing engi, spy and buffing sniper.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559289 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 19:50:55 +0200 Reply by Toooost https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-10/?recent=559321#post=559288 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559288 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 19:29:17 +0200 Reply by Stinson_Out https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-10/?recent=559321#post=559287 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559287 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 18:43:08 +0200 Reply by Ond kaja https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-10/?recent=559321#post=559283 Quoted from Muuki

[...]just because your brain can't comprehend it doesn't mean its senseless garbage

projection]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559283 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:55:03 +0200 Reply by schabdaniel https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-10/?recent=559321#post=559282 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559282 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:47:02 +0200 Reply by Moogi https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-10/?recent=559321#post=559280 Quoted from ondkaja

[...] "complaints of their community" != a few guys writing essays the admins are under no obligation to respond to the senseless garbage that gets posted in this thread.

just because your brain can't comprehend it doesn't mean its senseless garbage]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559280 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:22:31 +0200 Reply by Ond kaja https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-33557/page-10/?recent=559321#post=559279 Quoted from Hildreth

[...] That is the leagues work, to answer the complaints of their community.

"complaints of their community" != a few guys writing essays the admins are under no obligation to respond to the senseless garbage that gets posted in this thread.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=general&topic=33557&post=559279 Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:16:00 +0200