The problem is not with Valve, at any rate.

So what I'd like to see with this new balance system is valve adding more incentive to make maps and get them into the official game

Just a thought which I've ranted at for some people: Since apparently the problem with competitive TF2 is the staleness (lack of variety in an fps game? what is this), and Robin wants to change the system to appeal to pubbers via change of classlimits or rebalancing unlocks to make all classes viable. Instead of/As well as doing this, wouldn't it be possible to add more incentive to make new maps? Adding new maps (that are actually balanced) would force teams to think up new strategies, the game will become less stale for the spectator because he can see more maps being played which all play differently in a way or another. At the moment the problem is that all the current maps are just too good to replace, so to fix this you could keep some of the staple maps (Badlands, Gullywash, Process) and rotate new, upcoming maps and maybe some of the current less popular maps (Granary and custom maps). What I partly base this on is what I see for example in Quake. They have been playing the same maps for 10+ years (ZTN, dm6, aerowalk). This gets boring for the viewer because the map pool only consists of around 8~ maps depending on the competition. id software only adds in a duel map so rarely, and Quake Live has no support for custom maps to be played in multiplayer, thus they cannot get accepted as staple competitive maps through the community. The duel maps that get released are usually regarded as complete shit, even though some of them look promising and get the backup of some 2000+ elo players, but the tournament managers won't put them into the game because part of the community don't like it. Again, it just gets more boring for the viewer. Another thing is that unlike Moba and RTS which mostly rely on your base knowledge of the game and countering your opponents picks/builds (if this isn't the case, keep reading anyway), fps games have always been about personal skill (aim, push/hold execution) and map knowledge (tactics, positioning). In RTS and Moba you have constant balance updates because that's just how the game works, most of the game is about picking stuff and balancing something always has the chance of unbalancing something else, which then will get balanced and the cycle goes on. In TF2, your teams are ALWAYS on a completely even ground in terms of what they have available to them and how they can counter it, so there's rarely something that completely OP (2 heavies, 2 medics). This is why I'd like to see a change in maps instead of unlock balance, because if all unlocks are viable then midfights will turn into a diceroll, then the respawning team can counter the enemy team with unlocks/class picks, which then will get countered by the respawning team, which will then again get countered and the cycle goes on. So what I'd like to see with this new balance system is valve adding more incentive to make maps and get them into the official game and have the leagues force AT LEAST one season of it in the pool IF it's been even remotely accepted by the community (hi etf2l). Hell, you could even make a map which gimps a current main class a bit so playing an utility class wouldn't be such a toll on your team. oh and if this is the incorrect thread for this then w/e, you probably read this anyway also i'm really tired so i'm sorry if i just wrote a massive wall of text that's complete bullshit i am sorry

Just a thought which I've ranted at for some people: Since apparently the problem with competitive TF2 is the staleness (lack of variety in an fps game? what is this), and Robin wants to change the system to appeal to pubbers via change of classlimits or rebalancing unlocks to make all classes viable. Instead of/As well as doing this, wouldn't it be possible to add more incentive to make new maps? Adding new maps (that are actually balanced) would force teams to think up new strategies, the game will become less stale for the spectator because he can see more maps being played which all play differently in a way or another. At the moment the problem is that all the current maps are just too good to replace, so to fix this you could keep some of the staple maps (Badlands, Gullywash, Process) and rotate new, upcoming maps and maybe some of the current less popular maps (Granary and custom maps). What I partly base this on is what I see for example in Quake. They have been playing the same maps for 10+ years (ZTN, dm6, aerowalk). This gets boring for the viewer because the map pool only consists of around 8~ maps depending on the competition. id software only adds in a duel map so rarely, and Quake Live has no support for custom maps to be played in multiplayer, thus they cannot get accepted as staple competitive maps through the community. The duel maps that get released are usually regarded as complete shit, even though some of them look promising and get the backup of some 2000+ elo players, but the tournament managers won't put them into the game because part of the community don't like it. Again, it just gets more boring for the viewer. Another thing is that unlike Moba and RTS which mostly rely on your base knowledge of the game and countering your opponents picks/builds (if this isn't the case, keep reading anyway), fps games have always been about personal skill (aim, push/hold execution) and map knowledge (tactics, positioning). In RTS and Moba you have constant balance updates because that's just how the game works, most of the game is about picking stuff and balancing something always has the chance of unbalancing something else, which then will get balanced and the cycle goes on. In TF2, your teams are ALWAYS on a completely even ground in terms of what they have available to them and how they can counter it, so there's rarely something that completely OP (2 heavies, 2 medics). This is why I'd like to see a change in maps instead of unlock balance, because if all unlocks are viable then midfights will turn into a diceroll, then the respawning team can counter the enemy team with unlocks/class picks, which then will get countered by the respawning team, which will then again get countered and the cycle goes on. So what I'd like to see with this new balance system is valve adding more incentive to make maps and get them into the official game and have the leagues force AT LEAST one season of it in the pool IF it's been even remotely accepted by the community (hi etf2l). Hell, you could even make a map which gimps a current main class a bit so playing an utility class wouldn't be such a toll on your team. oh and if this is the incorrect thread for this then w/e, you probably read this anyway also i'm really tired so i'm sorry if i just wrote a massive wall of text that's complete bullshit i am sorry

This thread is so full of AIDS it almost killed me. Retarded shit everywhere.

This thread is so full of AIDS it almost killed me. Retarded shit everywhere.