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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;The Beta Inquiry #1: The Direct Hit&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by Plasters</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-3/?recent=259956#post=259956</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from kurt</i>
		<blockquote><strong>I had no time to read the other posts so I'll just post my suggestion:</strong></blockquote>

You can understand why some people may not be too inclined to do so.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 21:47:06 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by kurt</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-3/?recent=259956#post=259954</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Nobody talked about my post so I won't talk about your posts aswell.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 21:21:28 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Suub</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-3/?recent=259956#post=259944</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I know this ;)

The thing is, i feel the DH should reward them a bit more since you're saying that there should be no damage increase. Reduced fall off would be a damage increase in effect. And it would rule out the need for fast firing.

You edit your posts a lot :P

Also, can i suggest you put the top 3 suggestions in the OP, and (you or someone else) pass it onto Valve to put into the beta for testing? People can talk and debate all day but the best way to test things is to actually play with them, and the sooner the better.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 20:10:10 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-3/?recent=259956#post=259941</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Well, good soldiers will try to go for a direct hit even with the regular launcher as it does so much more damage :p

But yeah, reduced falloff on direct hits would be cool as well.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 20:03:47 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Suub</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-3/?recent=259956#post=259940</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Oh so you want it even more like the RL?

Well i have no problems with that, infact i would prefer that. Although i do feel like the soldier needs more incentive to want to direct hit people. After all, that was the initial concept idea.

How about:
+50% increased rocket speed
-50% splash radius
Mini crits on juggled
Reduced falloff on direct hits (ground and airborne). - incentive to direct hit and also counters the need for increased fire speed / extra rocket loaded.

Yes/no?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 20:02:29 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-3/?recent=259956#post=259934</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Except it would be just as annoying to play against as solly/demo due to the weapon firing super fast. Any jumps will be just denied with such rocket speed. I seriously doubt the community will accept such a weapon.

Assuming the stuff I said earlier about the weapons problems is correct you'd be looking at something more like this:
 Has 40% faster rocket speed.
 Guarantees Mini-Crit damage on juggled opponents.
 Has 40% smaller splash damage radius.
 Slightly faster fire rate or extra rocket loaded or w/e.

Just the normal launcher with lower splash and higher speed that people always wanted. Like all launchers it rewards direct hits and with the juggle mechanic it's strong vs heavy classes. Should be cool for pocket sollies, who kinda deserve new toys.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 19:46:46 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Suub</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-3/?recent=259956#post=259931</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Vali</i>
		<blockquote>
-Damage bonus decreased from 25% to 10%
-Splash damage radius reduction decreased from 70% to 50-60%
-Removed mini-crits on enemies airborne due to explosions.
-Reduced fall-off damage for direct hits on grounded targets.

Was my suggestion for a new DH.

</blockquote>

I think this wins.
No more one shotting things,
Increased splash damage makes it more useful when rj'ing
Minicrits shouldnt be rewarded for something thats easy.
Reduced fall off for Direct hits keeps the weapon close to its original concept.

No splash and higher damage is balanced imo, but that doesnt make it not stupid..

Other players dont like getting one-shotted. Soldiers dont like a lack of splash. Theres nothing wrong with having the DH as a modified version of the RL rather than a complete remake. It will certainly make the community more willing to accept it as a weapon because its less of an extreme.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 19:40:33 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Tikcus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-3/?recent=259956#post=259807</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I promise you i'm not missing the point

The point is to try and fix the direct hit, the weapon is designed to reward a DIRECT HIT (better aim)
The ways to do this -
Increase damage done by a direct hit - reduce damage done by a miss

If they simple did that it would be fine, apart from those complaining of being 1 shot (not a big problem you survive more from lack of splash damage)

However to balance it out for the masses of public players (and a lot of competitive players), making that direct hit HAS TO BE EASIER than using the standard rocket launcher or it will be to inferior in the hands of 99% of the community.

To make it easier you HAVE to increase the speed the projectile travels at.

ANY increase in projectile speed will be complained about.

but please try and remember the balance, yes a rocket that travels fast and does more damage is "annoying" but remember the other 95% of the game where the lack of splash makes it a lot worse.

Any suggestion or discussion in here should not try and shape the direct hit into another stock rocket launcher]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:27:44 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Eledorian</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-3/?recent=259956#post=259795</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Tikcus</i>
		<blockquote>
+25% damage done
+80% projectile speed
-90% explosion radius (got to be able to rocket jump)
-25% firing speed
</blockquote>

The stats are possibly even worse than on the current direct hit, even less splash radius? Reducing the splash radius even further and then also lowering fire speed doesn't do anything to make it more usefull, all that does it make it more useless.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:13:18 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-3/?recent=259956#post=259792</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Can you keep ban discussion out of here, you are totally missing the point of this thread

The tdh negating jumping and one-shotting I'd love to see fixed even though I personally have no problem with the weapon being unbanned in a match I play.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:07:07 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Tikcus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-2/?recent=259956#post=259789</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from RaCio</i>
		<blockquote>Whats the point in changing mini-crits if your version would still be annoying as hell for anyone trying to jump.</blockquote>

annoying not a good reason to ban, never has been never will be

Stickies are annoying 
Kritzkreig is annoying 
snipers are annoying 
Splash damage is annoying 
spys are annoying 
etc

So soldiers may have to look before they jump, they see a Direct Hit soldier, they call where he is they get him focused out of the game, or they jump a lot lower, as it is currently TDH &#38; mini crits with the zero falloff on rockets = 180+ damage on a jumping soldier/demo, remove the mini crits an you're looking at around 60-100 damage.

If you make airshots harder what's the point in the weapon, reducing the speed, and increasing the splash = another standard rocket launcher (or as close as)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:56:04 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-2/?recent=259956#post=259787</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Whats the point in changing mini-crits if your version would still be annoying as hell for anyone trying to jump. 

I also disagree about one-shotting not being a problem. While the rocket laucnher might be more consistent I do think that one-shotting on close range with a rocket launcher is kind of silly. 

As said earlier I think the weapon as a whole should be tuned down a bit. So your comparison to the loch was quite good.

		<blockquote>
Another problem (imo), with the tdh is that it is not really popular under people who play soldier as their main class. I’d say mostly because the rocket speed is so high and splash so low that it’s aiming style becomes close the a hitscan weapon as opposed to the normal rocket launcher which uses prediction, and where you aim slightly behind the feet of the target.</blockquote>]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:43:23 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Tikcus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-2/?recent=259956#post=259785</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Current stats of TDH

+25% damage done
+80% projectile speed
Mini-crits airborne targets
-70% explosion radius

Current stats of the Lock and load

 +10% Damage done.
 +25% Projectile speed.
 -60% clip size.
 Launched bombs shatter on surface.
 +25 Damage done to self.
No fall of damage on direct Hit

Personally I like the new lock and load, and it maks TDH look massively OP in comparison, however since the lock and load is a secondary weapon (in reality) I wouldn't like to see TDH copied instead this

+25% damage done
+80% projectile speed
-90% explosion radius (got to be able to rocket jump)
-25% firing speed

As a scout being 1 shot doesn't bother me, as I remember the amount of times I lived thanks to the lack ofsplash damage (granted with the better aim in the top divisions, I'd probably die a lot more, however I'd still try and keep the solider at mid range)

Remove the mini crits and make it so a second shot can not be fired so quickly, making the punishment for missing higher

*edit*
Also people keep going on about slowing the game down through jumping... apart from badlands spire, which other currently played map does anyone jump blind? Good soldiers sit players down with the rocket launcher on normal jumps (e.g. suicide jumps for medic), I really think this is a much smaller problem than people make it out to be.

Please don't say it slows the game down, it's a slow game anyway]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:40:55 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by kurt</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-2/?recent=259956#post=257471</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I had no time to read the other posts so I'll just post my suggestion:
Lower damage to the damage of the rocket launcher. Instead increase the damage on distant targets. Damage should still be calculated considering the distance of the target but the coefficient reducing the damage over distance should be decreased. With these changes the Direct Hit would be more interesting for Solis because with good aim he could do considerable damage over long distances. Let's say 65 damage with a direct hit from badlands choke to balcony. Silly minicrits should completely be removed.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 18:55:56 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-14804/page-2/?recent=259956#post=257438</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Im going to disagree with the above posts again. Most observations are pretty much correct however then people come up with a conclusion or suggestion that seems unrelated to the problems brought up in the same post.

I totally agree with the post above me saying that a large problem of tdh is that as with all explosive weapons the rocket will break your jump and either launch you up or throw you down in the middle of spam. A mid range scattergun shot on a jumping soldier does not stop him mid air, but a tdh shot totally denies the jump and is only slightly harder. Its the prevention of going aggresive that people tend to see as annoying. (in addition to light classes being one shotted)

So the first part of the post is pretty much spot on. But your conclusion seems a bit off. You said that knockback was a great problem of the weapon, yet you want to keep the rocket speed and get rid of the mincrits. Do you think having a tdh with super fast rockets and increased damage would not cause the exact same situation you discribed earlier? And how do your arguments support removing mincrits rather than the damage, both effects should be about equal as both lower airshot damage.
Fact is, mincrits are fairly trivial to the problems the tdh has. Hell, the original suggestion of the attribute came from prem div player Moose. Now I'm sure all of you are way smarter then him and valve, and can come up with way better and cooler stuff but that's slightly besides the point of this thread, feedback and solving problems. 


As I've posted before, I personally consider the tdh to have 3 problems. Oneshotting light classes, easy airshots making going aggresive a pain and the fast rockets/low splash making the weapon feel strange to normal soldier play and to much like hitscan. Feel free to disagree on those and mention why :)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 17:00:10 +0100</pubDate>
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