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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;Recent Patch Bugs (157 nade) Fragga&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by AnAkIn_</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-11/?recent=13620#post=13620</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Not really, you get most of times values of the middle, see here:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=728813]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:23:35 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by xtala</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-11/?recent=13620#post=13618</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[The average damage is more or less right in the middle of the range, however, you barely ever get damages values around the middle. They're mostly around the top or the bottom of the range.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:02:28 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Dr. Sellrion</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-11/?recent=13620#post=13617</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Its these players that can say what is good for the game, and what is bad, not valve.</i>

If you read this thread, you'll find that most of that players, you are talking about, are against the static damage plugin. Of course, if it will be released, tested (very carefully) and approved by League, than I will say you've done it very well...]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:16:30 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by atreides</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-11/?recent=13620#post=13611</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[just do a random sample for all relevant weapons, like n=100.

I doubt that the true average is the mid of the damage range. 

Find out the spread and lower it to a reasonable size.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 03:02:47 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Mole</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-10/?recent=13620#post=13607</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I just want to reassure to people that we as ETF2L will not take this on until it has been effectively tested and is very much a community agreement that it is needed. We won't just throw this in.

From a personal perspective, AnAkin should be posting more about changes and the direction this is going. Keep us updated. Game changes like this should not be made by one or two peoples opinion alone. This should only make changes to make the game what it was like pre-update and no other changes for now. On top of that changes should be by community vote or test.

If you need to hold one night cups or games to test and balance these changes then talk to me/dAy/DeNeusBeer, ETF2L would be happy to make an event happen to work with the community to improve the gameplay for the competitive players that want to play properly as a team. It benefits us all after all and is the best way to find a level that we can agree on. The changes may not as simple as just "make demo weaker".]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 01:31:44 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Renegade</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-10/?recent=13620#post=13606</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Sellrion you are running under the assumption that valve understand the games needs better than anyone else, which I would say is an unfair assumption. Some competitive players have dedicated many hours (over 1000) into learning and playing the game, for fun or for competition. Valve couldnt compete with this amount of play "testing", especially not from single players. Its these players that can say what is good for the game, and what is bad, not valve.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 01:14:36 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AnAkIn_</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-10/?recent=13620#post=13603</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[You probably said the same about nocrits. Nocrits server were first possible by a plugin (TFTrue). Then, when VALVe saw that TFTrue was used a lot, they decided to add a cvar to disable crits and respawn times.
If this plugin is going to be used in leagues and VALVe see that it is used, they might add a cvar.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:40:51 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Dr. Sellrion</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-10/?recent=13620#post=13601</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>The plugin automatically takes the middle value of the random damage, and I don’t see any problem with that.</i>

Who said that it should be the middle value? Weapon damage system - is a very important part of game balancing. And no one, exepting Valve, can change it. It is not like removing crits, damage system lays deeper than you imagine. Valve created the game, and only they can bring the static damage into TF2. IMO, of course...]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 22:59:16 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Evil</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-10/?recent=13620#post=13598</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Thats right]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=1363&#038;post=13598</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:53:59 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Relentless</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-10/?recent=13620#post=13596</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Evil, TF2 is dead anyway :O]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:18:44 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AnAkIn_</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-10/?recent=13620#post=13593</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Public play is already separated from competitive play with crits/nocrits.

 A lot of games like COD4 have pro mods, and there is no problem with that. Pro mods like the COD4 one are changing like 50 things in the game (go to the site and see the feature list). Here we are just changing one thing.

And yes, like you said, there are almost no TF2 Lans, or nobody go to them.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 20:27:13 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Evil</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-10/?recent=13620#post=13592</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Bad idea imo, game mods like this that separate general public play and the competitive side of the game can kill the game. There s also usually a lot of hassle at LAN when the mod generally wont be on the servers, such as tf true (or whatever it was called) and i-series.

But hey ho hardly any of you go to lan anyways.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 20:15:35 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by zeKe</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-10/?recent=13620#post=13587</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[This sounds great I hope ETF2L admins at least take the time to check it out]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:35:55 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AnAkIn_</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-10/?recent=13620#post=13582</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[@Dr. Sellrion : Did I ever say we are estimating the damage value?

The plugin automatically takes the middle value of the random damage, and I don't see any problem with that. Damage is not totally static because of the distance based damage which is still here.

The main problem with random damage is that the grenade launcher/sticky launcher damage range is really large (around 80 damage difference).


EDIT: We got the plugin to work on Linux. It'll be released soon :)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:48:19 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by xtala</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1363/page-10/?recent=13620#post=13578</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Some random damage is rather nice, if only for the placebo effect of making the game more intense.
However atm there is too much spread for some weapons.

As some have said before: a demo can kill a scout with one nade if he's lucky, but he might need 3 if he's got bad luck.

It's things like that that annoy people, and ultimately make them leave the game.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:46:48 +0100</pubDate>
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