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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;TF2 Open Beta&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by Nick</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-14/?recent=217629#post=217629</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[This thread was rather interesting with really good points being put forward at first, then for whatever reason you started whining about prize money. Seriously who the hell cares about that? It's a nice bonus for teams that have worked hard to get where they are now, but it shouldn't be the focus of playing a game.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 17:26:10 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Sturmis</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-14/?recent=217629#post=217546</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Yeah wrangler's awesome, let's just hope valve makes more weapons with built in aimbots!]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:24:53 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Koeitje</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-14/?recent=217629#post=217542</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Waebi</i>
		<blockquote>ïmo the wrangler tactic is something that could really bring something new to the game; an offensive engineer, if you will. The time it may take to swap the Engie back to whatever he was before after you've defended last may already make a difference. Imagine if you can just pack up your gear and attack cp2 with it? :D</blockquote>

Yeah, I was experimenting with this on pixelpug. But some dipshit decided to ban the wrangler.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:22:14 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by waebi</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-14/?recent=217629#post=217540</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[ïmo the wrangler tactic is something that could really bring something new to the game; an offensive engineer, if you will. The time it may take to swap the Engie back to whatever he was before after you've defended last may already make a difference. Imagine if you can just pack up your gear and attack cp2 with it? :D]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:20:27 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by r7an</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-14/?recent=217629#post=217538</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[i heard shintaz once got a 59 kill streak as engy on HH]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:10:48 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by UPS</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-14/?recent=217629#post=217537</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Memento Mori</i>
		<blockquote>[...]
You don't use FiveSeven and UMP in CS because they fucking suck.

You don't use minisentries and run engineers on middle because....</blockquote>

Actually, I would like Shintaz to finish that sentence.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:08:25 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Memento Mori</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-14/?recent=217629#post=217476</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Tikcus</i>
		<blockquote>wasters argument is retarded, in css he is allowed to use anything he wants to, he chooses not to.

In TF2 he is forced to use certain weapons and in a certain setup, because 1 person decided that was 'FUN' .

At least in CSS he has a choice</blockquote>
You don't use FiveSeven and UMP in CS because they fucking suck.

You don't use minisentries and run engineers on middle because....]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:22:54 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by weaselo</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-14/?recent=217629#post=217469</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from rezOnanceUK</i>
		<blockquote>
I.e. Buff banner could be tweaked so the enemy knows when its charged... 
</blockquote>

Amen!-Unfurling Banner + Sound effects would be really useful (if ETF2L fill their part of the bargain)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:52:37 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Suub</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-14/?recent=217629#post=217417</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Random post incoming..

Imo all the classes and current their current balance are fine. Its the maps that make different classes viable (like grav you see engi/pyro) and this is fine. The standard setup doesnt have to change to accommodate new players, it should just stay the same, however...

All weapons should be allowed in comp play to add variety in the current standard classes BUT, the weapons that are currently banned and unused should be changed in order to deal with their issues. I.e. Buff banner could be tweaked so the enemy knows when its charged and the damage output should be tweaked etc... 

If an unlock has a good concept but hasent been executed very well, use the beta to test changes to it and see what works best. 99% of the tweaks to weapons that make them more useful in comp play hardly effect pub play anyway.

Overall you get a game that doesnt change for the worse, you get a bit more variation in comp play without completely ruining the game, pubbers can just keep on playing the way they always do without knowing any different and Valve can keep pumping new content into the game to keep it alive.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 01:31:17 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-14/?recent=217629#post=217293</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Let's get this ontopic again :)


Keep this about the beta and our possible goals for it]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 21:25:29 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by InFlam0r</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-13/?recent=217629#post=217283</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Fluffy Meowington</i>
		<blockquote>
[...]
That is exactly the kind of attitude that causes a community to fail. Disgusting.
ShopTO tournament comes to mind.</blockquote>
The organizer of this tournaments fails because they are not interesting enough for the lower teams.
How to make it interesting? same skilllevel, prizes or money
Etf2l got the first one right and look we have 300+ teams here.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 21:11:53 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Fluffy Meowington</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-13/?recent=217629#post=217274</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from kaidus</i>
		<blockquote>shopTO failed becuase it was run by a bunch of clueless idiots who enforced retarded rules that didn't adhere to anything the community is used to. It's no surprise no one gave a shit about it, really.</blockquote>

There is no doubt it was run highly unprofessionally, but the turn-up was ridiculous.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 21:07:30 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by kaidus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-13/?recent=217629#post=217271</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[shopTO failed becuase it was run by a bunch of clueless idiots who enforced retarded rules that didn't adhere to anything the community is used to. It's no surprise no one gave a shit about it, really.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 21:06:47 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Fluffy Meowington</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-13/?recent=217629#post=217255</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[First off let me say that I don't mean to bash you Kuma, it's just that your posts contained the highest density of <em>wrong</em>.

<i>Quoted from kuma</i>
		<blockquote>Just look at any top competitive game, be it Starcraft, CS, Quake or whatever, and there are no artificial restrictions at all.</blockquote>
The difference being that they don't suck sweaty, unwashed penis.

<i>Quoted from kuma</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

Yeah I'm one of them. But there are more of them than there are of us.</blockquote>
This doesn't matter at all. This is the forum of a competitive league.

<i>Quoted from kuma</i>
		<blockquote>Most successful comp games keep the format of pub play fairly similar to that of the comp side. See BW/SC2, Dota/Hon, Quake duels, etc. Even CS keeps the weapons used between pub and comp the same.</blockquote>
BW/SC2: Blizzard game, balance will be attained eventually, unless they start updating the game every few months.
Dota/Hon: Banning Pick.
Quake duels: The game, and that mode in particular, is from a time when competition in videogames was standard, when people still played games to beat their friends and improve, not to unlock achievements.
CS: There are 2 categories of weapons in CS- <em>sucks balls</em>, and <em>doesn't suck balls</em>; if most/all class-update-weapons in TF2 were quite clearly worse than their vanilla counterpart we wouldn't have this conversation.

Comparing apples and oranges is fun.

<i>Quoted from Tikcus</i>
		<blockquote>also never heard a CSS or COD player complaining about flash bang or stun grenades</blockquote>
Holy fuck, lol.


Anyway, all this talk about weapons and classes doesn't -at heart- really matter at all tbh. TF2 had issues for 2+ years that should've been addressed shortly after release, but valve can't/won't even playtest weapons before implementing them, so don't hold your breath.

<i>Quoted from InFlam0r</i>
		<blockquote>About the 40/64 teams of the esh cup, what is the point for joining as a div 6.5.4 team? Everybody knows that either dig, tcm or eps will get the 500pounds</blockquote>
That is exactly the kind of attitude that causes a community to fail. Disgusting.
ShopTO tournament comes to mind.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:53:56 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Sturmis</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12631/page-13/?recent=217629#post=217245</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Proper big tournaments are fun to just watch.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:40:24 +0200</pubDate>
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