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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;Improve the spectator mode&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by Rotab</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-3/?recent=215876#post=215876</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from dotfloat™</i>
		<blockquote>Alrighty

I decided to spare you fine gentlemen from watching my horrible youtube video where I explain just how wrong you are, and instead I'll keep things plain and simple.

Example in counter strike source (the new version), on de_dust2.
I've got HDR on, 0x AA, 1920x1080 res.
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/de_dust2.png">de_dust2 overview texture</a>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/de_dust2_radar.png">de_dust2_radar overview texture</a>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/cl_leveloverview5.jpg">de_dust2 cl_leveloverview 5</a> (the number means how far the camera is zoomed out)

<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/doubledoors0.jpg">Double doors with cl_leveloverview 0 (first-person)</a>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/doubledoors1.png">Double doors with cl_leveloverview 2</a>

Also, note that if you try to use overview on a custom map it doesn't work.

PS: don't get me wrong, I would love to see this feature in tf2, I'm just trying to explain why valve won't do it.</blockquote>

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Level_Overviews
gl hf]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=12550&#038;post=215876</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 19:09:26 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by honeymustard</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-3/?recent=215876#post=215875</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from dotfloat™</i>
		<blockquote>Alrighty

I decided to spare you fine gentlemen from watching my horrible youtube video where I explain just how wrong you are, and instead I'll keep things plain and simple.

Example in counter strike source (the new version), on de_dust2.
I've got HDR on, 0x AA, 1920x1080 res.
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/de_dust2.png">de_dust2 overview texture</a>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/de_dust2_radar.png">de_dust2_radar overview texture</a>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/cl_leveloverview5.jpg">de_dust2 cl_leveloverview 5</a> (the number means how far the camera is zoomed out)

<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/doubledoors0.jpg">Double doors with cl_leveloverview 0 (first-person)</a>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/doubledoors1.png">Double doors with cl_leveloverview 2</a>

Also, note that if you try to use overview on a custom map it doesn't work.

PS: don't get me wrong, I would love to see this feature in tf2, I'm just trying to explain why valve won't do it.</blockquote>

what
All I said was that they use cl_leveloverview to take screenshots. So thanks for confirming my post?

edit: misread your second post; anyway point still stands. Valve already have overview screenshots of all their maps, and they only take about 30 seconds to produce.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 19:08:10 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by dotfloat</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-3/?recent=215876#post=215863</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Flack</i>
		<blockquote>Allways great too see when the soldiers and the demoman makes sweet airshots and i would honestly like to see that on the way it is now, it would make no since wachting it from a overview-.-</blockquote>

FYI, cs allows you to either have a full sized overview, or a radar that shows everything in the top right.

<i>Quoted from M24_</i>
		<blockquote>only problem with this is that valve probably won't do it for custom maps.</blockquote>

Of course they won't, which means that every custom map maker must create his/her own overview.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:50:39 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by stwn</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-3/?recent=215876#post=215862</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Azdean</i>
		<blockquote>I don't see what the fuss is about.

This isn't CSS where the enemy team run off all over the map and kill things this is TF2 where the bulk of the enemy team will ALWAYS be on the choke and the scouts will ALWAYS be on the flanks.

Why the hell would we need some shitty map overview when it's 1000% obvious where everyone will be? 
Casting would see 0 improvement from this because we all know where the players are and if there going to do something new then caster's just need to look at the flanks.

And I know it sounds like I'm only talking about badlands but every single TF2 map is built with choke's and flanks. 
It's not hard to find the action on TF2 like it is on CSS because the action is centred around the points and there entrance's.</blockquote>
+1 to dotfloat, total BS. the i40 final casting would've improved a LOT if they all knew where everyone was. there were SO many times darn or cube jumped the medic out of nowhere, and the casters were on it 1,2 seconds too late, with some rare exceptions. with an overview it would've been obvious that e.g a red soldier's going to jump soon or attack
also just to satisfy my curiosity i've watched a match in cs (1.6) between that there. Na'vi was their name and SK gaming or someone else in a final in... dallas i think? the arbalet dallas cup. and they almost always went in 3-2 or rarer 2-2-1 groups
might've just been them damn ruskies fussing it up though]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=12550&#038;post=215862</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:49:43 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by stwn</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-3/?recent=215876#post=215860</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from skinnie</i>
		<blockquote>just a somewhat related question:

does everyone have the same problem since the last update that when u spectate a sniper you can't see him zooming anymore? (same when watching demos)</blockquote>
aye]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=12550&#038;post=215860</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:45:01 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by skinnie</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-2/?recent=215876#post=215856</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[just a somewhat related question:

does everyone have the same problem since the last update that when u spectate a sniper you can't see him zooming anymore? (same when watching demos)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:39:41 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Complete</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-2/?recent=215876#post=215849</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Azdean</i>
		<blockquote>I don't see what the fuss is about.

This isn't CSS where the enemy team run off all over the map and kill things this is TF2 where the bulk of the enemy team will ALWAYS be on the choke and the scouts will ALWAYS be on the flanks.

Why the hell would we need some shitty map overview when it's 1000% obvious where everyone will be? 
Casting would see 0 improvement from this because we all know where the players are and if there going to do something new then caster's just need to look at the flanks.

And I know it sounds like I'm only talking about badlands but every single TF2 map is built with choke's and flanks. 
It's not hard to find the action on TF2 like it is on CS because the action is centred around the points and there entrance's.</blockquote>

THIS explain everything! Its not CS-.-

And in TF2 each battle can be very difference from CS. 
Allways great too see when the soldiers and the demoman makes sweet airshots and i would honestly like to see that on the way it is now, it would make no since wachting it from a overview-.-]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=12550&#038;post=215849</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:18:39 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by M24_</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-2/?recent=215876#post=215845</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[only problem with this is that valve probably won't do it for custom maps.

edit: although most of the action is at choke, it is helpful for commentators to observe flanks, odd tactics before they happen.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=12550&#038;post=215845</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:06:10 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Nagash</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-2/?recent=215876#post=215837</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[TFC also had this feature, and i believe it was in before CS was even released. not 100% certain on that, but anyway, it would be a nice little feature, even for just generic spectating, not just matches. true it's easy enough to find the action, but not everyone plays the same way, and with something like this you could spot people hiding and waiting to pounce, or gaps in peoples defences where people exploit for backcaps. 

heh, it would even be a good system for lower skilled clans or new to teamplay type players, because they could watch sourcetv demo's to see positioning of players and where they are at any given moment. 

you could even use it as a tool to research upcoming opponents to see if they have any gaps in their lineup etc... or to review your own matches to see who's fault back caps are.

also you could watch demo's at high speed and get a strong feel of where everyone is and whats going on, but you can't do this at highspeed inthe current views.

Like i say though, it was in TFC, so if valve were going to port it over as a feature, they'd have done it at TF2's release. The fact that they even have a folder in TF2 for overviews suggests that they tested the feature and it didn't work, so it was left out]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=12550&#038;post=215837</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 17:42:03 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by dotfloat</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-2/?recent=215876#post=215826</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Azdean</i>
		<blockquote>rant</blockquote>

It's still is nice to just see where everyone are at a given moment without going through every person.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=12550&#038;post=215826</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 17:08:13 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Skylar</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-2/?recent=215876#post=215820</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I don't see what the fuss is about.

This isn't CSS where the enemy team run off all over the map and kill things this is TF2 where the bulk of the enemy team will ALWAYS be on the choke and the scouts will ALWAYS be on the flanks.

Why the hell would we need some shitty map overview when it's 1000% obvious where everyone will be? 
Casting would see 0 improvement from this because we all know where the players are and if there going to do something new then caster's just need to look at the flanks.

And I know it sounds like I'm only talking about badlands but every single TF2 map is built with choke's and flanks. 
It's not hard to find the action on TF2 like it is on CSS because the action is centred around the points and there entrance's.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=12550&#038;post=215820</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:53:53 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by dotfloat</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-2/?recent=215876#post=215819</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Alrighty

I decided to spare you fine gentlemen from watching my horrible youtube video where I explain just how wrong you are, and instead I'll keep things plain and simple.

Example in counter strike source (the new version), on de_dust2.
I've got HDR on, 0x AA, 1920x1080 res.
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/de_dust2.png">de_dust2 overview texture</a>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/de_dust2_radar.png">de_dust2_radar overview texture</a>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/cl_leveloverview5.jpg">de_dust2 cl_leveloverview 5</a> (the number means how far the camera is zoomed out)

<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/doubledoors0.jpg">Double doors with cl_leveloverview 0 (first-person)</a>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7122698/doubledoors1.png">Double doors with cl_leveloverview 2</a>

Also, note that if you try to use overview on a custom map it doesn't work.

PS: don't get me wrong, I would love to see this feature in tf2, I'm just trying to explain why valve won't do it.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=12550&#038;post=215819</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:40:49 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by honeymustard</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-2/?recent=215876#post=215222</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from dotfloat™</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

They take screenshots using that command, then edit them so they look nice. Now think, Valve will have to do that for every official map, then all the popular custom maps will also need overviews. This is just too much work.</blockquote>

No, they use cl_leveloverview

Try it yourself]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:15:03 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Nick</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-2/?recent=215876#post=215212</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I can see this feature being so useful to broadcasters, especially live ones.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=12550&#038;post=215212</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 16:39:17 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Dr. Chris</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-12550/page-2/?recent=215876#post=215210</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from dotfloat™</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

They take screenshots using that command, then edit them so they look nice. Now think, Valve will have to do that for every official map, then all the popular custom maps will also need overviews. This is just too much work.</blockquote>

In CS they don't edit them, why should they for TF?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 16:30:41 +0200</pubDate>
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