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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;ETF2L Premier&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by Agron</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-4/?recent=13581#post=13581</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[yeh was just gonna edit again and put that in. And ofc i presume that most teams would prefer a challenging and fun season instead of steaming through to a prize of 50euros or something :P]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:49:33 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by kaidus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-4/?recent=13581#post=13579</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I'm pretty sure that the manner in which teams are sorted into divisions would be somewhat more strict than the standard season 4 etc.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:47:36 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Agron</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-4/?recent=13581#post=13577</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[A system that gives money to winners of each tiered division might be problematic though. Why would a lower "div2" clan want to get beaten in div2 if they'd most likely win some cash by playing in div3?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:44:04 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Fluffy Meowington</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-4/?recent=13581#post=13576</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Digging out the thread to throw in my 0.02...

Personally I think it could be cool- that is if there was prize money for every division, just less and lower entry fees for lower div's. Don't think anyone would be willing to pay 60€ to play in div 4/5 but maybe like 10-25€ per team for the lower divisions, I could see that.

About the seedings, could limit it to teams that have played at least 1 season of the <i>normal</i> league so their strength can be factored in.

All in all quite fond of the idea.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:29:25 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Relentless</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-4/?recent=13581#post=11146</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Haha Cubeth very nice :X]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=1205&#038;post=11146</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:18:39 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Penguin_</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-4/?recent=13581#post=11145</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[You could have even more discrete (spelled?) ads in a footer or so aswell. And ads brings in more money than you think if you have decent numbers of visitors.

And higher prize money for higher divs would be obvius I'd say, and if enough money comes in it could be put on making a better website (though it's rather good already) or organising LAN's (or hosting tournaments on current ones).

I'd like to see more fun quick cups (preferably mix cups (players sign up as a role(class)) and get randomised into teams) with some fun prizes and that only are played over a night or so.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:14:39 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by cubeth</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-3/?recent=13581#post=11108</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[no it's <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0" title="this" rel="nofollow"> this one</a>]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:25:57 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Mick-</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-3/?recent=13581#post=11105</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[i think it's riemu website --&#62; http://www.wow-tactics.de/]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=general&#038;topic=1205&#038;post=11105</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 02:10:18 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by d3rail__</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-3/?recent=13581#post=11094</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I don't know what site Riemu is talking about but it'd be cool if he'd post the link so we can check out how much advertising there is. 

And Wlv, don't take it to LAN :( Not everyone is 20+ with freedom to get to Holland easily :P]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:53:36 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Wlv</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-3/?recent=13581#post=11084</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Id seriously doubt we'd have a 3k cash prize for an online competition, if we got that much from any future sponsership I think we'd take it to LAN :D]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:11:07 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by d3rail__</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-3/?recent=13581#post=10956</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[@Riemu

I''m surprised that your advertising brings in that much, and if used correctly, could definately go towards a prize pot. With sponsors, that could perhaps be brought up to around €3000? That would be a great start at attracting some more MGOs and TF2 being seen as a bigger game. 

Perhaps it would be possible to spread some of that money across some of the divisions? This would encourage more teams - especially around the division 3 level, who often fold if they arn't pushing towards Div 2 - to stay together and play till the end of the season. If this meant that the prize for Div 1 wasn't very high, perhaps they could each pay a small amount to enter, taking their allocated money up significantly?

The only drawback with this is obviously the advertising - as previously stated, this site is unique in that it has no huge flashing banners, which is really nice. However, if done reasonably tastefully, I think people would get used to it - especially if it was bringing in a large prize pot. I think perhaps one of the reasons ETF2L might not have been taken quite so seriously was because it didn't have tons of sponsors splashed all over it, and most MGOs think this means it's just a fun league, not serious.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 09:40:27 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by skinnie</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-3/?recent=13581#post=10820</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[tbh i can see div2/3 teams willing to pay for this because  their matches will have coverage, they will be in a top league with top clans , ... they have nothing to lose ( just a little money :p)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 11:05:58 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Riemu</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-3/?recent=13581#post=10814</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="Mole">Well this was mainly to be aimed at the top teams with orgs that would pay for it rather than people out of their own pocket, but I’d do a tiered system so other teams could enter as well if they wanted.</blockquote>

If you are only aiming at the top level teams, why do you even bother letting division 5 teams play (as you clearly stated). That doesnt really make much sense to me!

An entry fee based system is basically a good idea. However, this concept lacks some of the basic outlines of a successfull tournament (as some have pointed out already).


1. First and foremost:

Start out humble! Having a multi-divisional teams in one large pot will result in failure right away. As f2 has pointed out already: Donating money to Mick always feels bad. Really bad!

Set your first "Season" or "Tournament" up as Division 1 only. Meaning, you allow "Buy-ins" if a team really wants to play and donate money, even though they have absolutely no shot at reaching No. 1. This way, you will get a 10 or 12 team competition, tops. I can't really see Division 2 teams paying money for scoring a 8th place though.

See if your resources and ideas are fit for this first run and if it is you can start planning a big event with multi divisions, maybe a common prizepot and a prize distribution for all division.


2. Get some Advertising on this page!

Good placed advertising can indeed improve the rating of a website, instead of rejecting visitors. You have enough space on this page for a skyskraper and a full-size banner f.e.. Im running advertising on my World of warcraft website aswell (full-size + skyskraper) and Im getting a solid 600 € / month. If you can reach similiar numbers (I have no idea what your visitor numbers are), you can put most of that money into prizemoney. If you focus on the ETF2L League (3 leagues / year), you would have a prizefund of 2400 € for each League. Now isn't that something!


3. Coverage

Good organized coverage for such a big event is always a great bonus. But i believe with those 3 coverage sites everything should be covered ;). Don't forget to organize 500 slots sourcetv servers for the games, even for those you have coverage.


4. If you wanna be the best, you better win every map

Competitions nowadays are based on 2, 3 maps tops. And you can quite easily predict the top 3 teams on maps like badlands, granary and maybe gravelpit. But what happens when you turn that pool upside down? What happens, if 4Kings or TCM have to prove themselve on freight or fastlane or redstone or science? Create an envirement with fixed mappools, make sure every team has to play the same maps throughout the competition. Will be interesting to see if the top 3 can really prevail on every map.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:47:48 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by RaCio</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-3/?recent=13581#post=10605</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I think this is a really good idea.
Ofcourse it wont be interesting for all teams and it will most likely consist out of div1 / div2 teams. But I dont think that will be a problem since the setup is not meant for 100+ teams anyway. And it will make sure that every game will be a quality one, which is great with the STV and completely awesome with the all the promised coverage. 

And if it works out well, it might give a good boost to TF2 as competetive game.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 14:06:29 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by xtala</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-1205/page-3/?recent=13581#post=10601</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Tbh, I love the fact that this site is completely ad free.
I'd rather not visit a site with a bunch of ad's on it (eg every other gamessite)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:51:53 +0100</pubDate>
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