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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;Experimental Highlander Cup #8: Feedback&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by scootersks</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-3/?recent=561131#post=561131</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[deadringer already got nerfed why u would ban it ??? also razorback u can survive one backstab and thats it but u cant use pee its a good compensation  why u would ban it ???]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=feedback&#038;topic=33771&#038;post=561131</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2017 18:10:20 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Angrand Jeremie</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-3/?recent=561131#post=561126</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Was refreshing :)
Vanilla spy ftw]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=feedback&#038;topic=33771&#038;post=561126</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2017 14:34:52 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Sasami</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561103</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Nightmare</i>
		<blockquote>I'm still not a big fan of the bans, I find both of them unnecessary. During the cup I noticed that people were significantly more paranoid and spychecking more than they normally would. Even the stupidest pyro can find a spy if he just W+M1's in every corner, but not every pyro can fend off a gun spy using the dead ringer. (It comes down to skill and prediction) Spy is already one of the weakest classes in a 1v1 fight, a scout with milk can easily clean up a spy in two shots, even with the dead ringer, two meatshots would easily kill the spy. As Steve mentioned, spy basically has a lot less impact on the flank with iw and cnd compared to dr. For the razorback, if a spy can't kill the sniper when he's wearing the razorback, it says more about the spy than the sniper. I can understand that if a sniper is camping with the combo it can be quite hard to kill him, but that just requires team pressure which comes down to skill, thus banning it, as the dead ringer, lowers the skill ceiling quite a lot if you ask me. 

Nevertheless, the cup was fun, for next cups I'd rather see weapons unbanned such as the vita saw and darwin's dangershield to see how much of an impact they have.</blockquote>

:o]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2017 15:07:23 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Nightmare7</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561101</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I'm still not a big fan of the bans, I find both of them unnecessary. During the cup I noticed that people were significantly more paranoid and spychecking more than they normally would. Even the stupidest pyro can find a spy if he just W+M1's in every corner, but not every pyro can fend off a gun spy using the dead ringer. (It comes down to skill and prediction) Spy is already one of the weakest classes in a 1v1 fight, a scout with milk can easily clean up a spy in two shots, even with the dead ringer, two meatshots would easily kill the spy. As Steve mentioned, spy basically has a lot less impact on the flank with iw and cnd compared to dr. For the razorback, if a spy can't kill the sniper when he's wearing the razorback, it says more about the spy than the sniper. I can understand that if a sniper is camping with the combo it can be quite hard to kill him, but that just requires team pressure which comes down to skill, thus banning it, as the dead ringer, lowers the skill ceiling quite a lot if you ask me. 

Nevertheless, the cup was fun, for next cups I'd rather see weapons unbanned such as the vita saw and darwin's dangershield to see how much of an impact they have.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2017 09:49:13 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Cormac Walsh</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561098</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[As a pyro main, I like the bans. Toast still poops on everyone though]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2017 02:42:01 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by b33p_</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561097</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Didn't really notice a change and would prefer a more open whitelist.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=feedback&#038;topic=33771&#038;post=561097</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:44:25 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Coffeestyle</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561096</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[whitlist is bae keep it :)]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=feedback&#038;topic=33771&#038;post=561096</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:19:12 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Inlcuded_Middle</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561095</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[HL was made more fun in this cup by banning dr and razorback and to me that is more important than just having an unfun open whitelist.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=feedback&#038;topic=33771&#038;post=561095</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:18:02 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by schabdaniel</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561094</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Making snipers easier to kill is nice. The sniper will be forced to play with combo if there is enough pressure on him from spy on flanks, so he'd be easier to spot out and rotate around. But as people get used to lack of Razorback it might change so I'd keep a close eye on how teams play next season.

A very good vanilla spy can perform as well throughout the game as a DR spy, but right now the game just feels... easier because the majority of good spies in prem right now use the Amby+DR combo. 
The biggest thing for DR is that flanks will have an easier time of killing spy and spy will have a harder time outnumbering flanks. 
My biggest gripe with banning DR is that there is less element of surprise and less loadout variety. Because of this it's easier to play as a combo because you are always 100% sure the  spy is running invis, so you <strong>should</strong> always be prepared for it. It should also make engie live more because the spy will have a harder time 1v1'ing the engie as well.

Hope this is informative. For the record my view is +Razorback ban, -DR ban, and maybe think about spycicle a bit if DR stays. Spycicle has a lot going for it in both loadouts though it's a little underused. I think it can be really effective if used well.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2017 22:11:04 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Isil</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561093</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Very good whitelist, kind of refreshing =)
Having both DR and Razernoob seems balanced imo.
Despite less survivability, DR ban didn't seem to have affected much spy's performance unlike we could have expected (according to some logs I saw). Concerning RZ ban : sniper's picks has rised, which allows to counter more sniper's overwhelming power on certains maps (viaduct...).
I'd be happy to see that whitelist on next season.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2017 21:46:38 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Likokone</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561088</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Both snipermains on each teams got furious on product for getting focused by THE SPY!1! Overall good bans.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=feedback&#038;topic=33771&#038;post=561088</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:42:43 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by HartzFartz</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561066</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Was able to kill spies that wouldve escaped otherwise.]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=feedback&#038;topic=33771&#038;post=561066</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2017 12:31:42 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Louis-Arthur</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561057</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from divider</i>
		<blockquote>1. Like DR ban.
2. Don't like RB ban.</blockquote> same here]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=feedback&#038;topic=33771&#038;post=561057</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2017 00:53:42 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Angrand Jeremie</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=561036</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Fixtures ?]]></description>
    	    <guid isPermaLink="false">generator=rsdiscuss&#038;baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&#038;feed=forum&#038;forum=feedback&#038;topic=33771&#038;post=561036</guid>
    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:46:30 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by MoistPenguin</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33771/page-2/?recent=561131#post=560953</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Clark</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

I'm assuming you're going to seed teams according to their skill level and spread the best teams across all groups? And top 2 teams from each group will then proceed forward to the single elimination knock-out stage? If so, then it should be in the newspost.</blockquote>

That is the plan if signups are good, however as this competition is the first we have done for hl we didnt have any reliable numbers for signups so we didnt commit to any one system.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2017 14:45:42 +0100</pubDate>
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