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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;ETF2L 6v6 Season 25 Preseason Cup: Feedback&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by JanSGNm</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-2/?recent=560493#post=560493</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Necro much? Feedback thread for season 26 preseason cup can be found here: http://etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33714]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2017 20:00:41 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Ammohog</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-2/?recent=560493#post=560485</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I don't see how adding the Pomson is even up for debate, unless it's been reworked and <strong>significantly</strong> altered to fit into competetive]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2017 14:29:35 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by PJC</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-2/?recent=560493#post=557778</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I'd like to see Sunshine return to the pool this season, replacing Reckoner from last season. 

Mainly because Sunshine is way more polished now (potentially in it's final stage?) to the point where it's an official map, whereas both Forge and Reckoner seem to still require alot of work, so to me it would make more sense to use Sunshine even if it's kind of a controversial map.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2016 19:41:56 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by TwiggyWan Kenobi</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-2/?recent=560493#post=557710</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[And it's not a problem to you that all the 6 maps we have "all play the same"?

The way we were set up near house we had the pocket above, the demo between house and far right with the pocket scout and the roamer under, and we could lock all the accesses to our med except for soldier bombs.

If we get flanked from far right or 'the house near far right', only our demo could get wrecked because he was in front and the pocket scout/pocket soldier could help.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2016 21:27:25 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Gemmellness</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-2/?recent=560493#post=557709</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[we literally have 6 5cp maps that all play the same along with many past 5cp maps that all played the same. and you must have the most 1-dimensional scouts I've ever seen if they didnt manage to constantly be on your med. if you hold behind house a scout can walk far right, through the house next to far right, under point or far left all the way behind, and in like half of those routes you dont see them until they're inside your rectum unless you have a scout who's job is to look backwards all the time.


		<blockquote>To say forge plays differently because it’s flanky and spammy doesn’t make it bad</blockquote>

yes it does, since flanks are very easy to pull off and it's very unfun and anti-competitive to be punished by a flank or having to constantly watching for a flank. i mentioned viaduct because it's got a great balance imo in terms of flanks being possible but not stupidly easy. all the great 5cp maps at the moment have that balance and are relatively open with a few flanks possible if they're not watched (compared to vanguard/cargo which looks more like a clusterfuck atm) so I think it's pretty clear it's a good gameplay choice]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2016 17:21:00 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by TwiggyWan Kenobi</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-2/?recent=560493#post=557687</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from gemm</i>
		<blockquote> since the other places are so awful to push from.</blockquote>
True, but this can (and must!) be fixed


<i>Quoted from gemm</i>
		<blockquote>viaduct is a great koth map in 6s because you can actively watch for flankers while at the same time flanking is viable and because the angles and spam are precise and intentional the map rewards playing together and taking space together as a team.

</blockquote>

If viaduct is at your taste great, but maps must not follow the same template; If regardless of the map it can be played the same way, why bother making new maps?

To say forge plays differently because it's flanky and spammy doesn't make it bad ; It requires a different way of playing. I disagree about a scout able to flank whenever he wants as I didn't have this problem. 
Problems arise when it's objectively not balanced like it is now with the forward hold stuff.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2016 21:23:29 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Gemmellness</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-2/?recent=560493#post=557680</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I mixed on forge and detested it. the map can be broken down into rollout right side and stand on/around your house. a forward hold involves locking down their right side (your left) since the other places are so awful to push from.

the map is very spammy (due to the los through the house next to the point) and disgustingly flanky (which are my two least favourite things to be penetrated by). it's impossible to prevent a scout walking up behind your combo whenever they feel like it and it's impossible to keep track of their players since you can see about 1/3 of the map even if you're on point.

viaduct is a great koth map in 6s because you can actively watch for flankers while at the same time flanking is viable and because the angles and spam are precise and intentional the map rewards playing together and taking space together as a team.

we desperately need another koth map in rotation but forge is definitely not it, i'd rather play lakeside and get fucked by snipers]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2016 17:14:33 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by TwiggyWan Kenobi</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-2/?recent=560493#post=557652</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I liked all the maps presented in the cup. I'm sad that only one will make it to the pool.

If etf2l really wants diversity in the map pool, it should be considered to expand it. Has it always been 7 maps for 7 weeks?

Why not experiment with 4 maps played 2 times, and 6 maps played one time? or 5 maps played 2 times and 4 played once, etc...

Why not also have a map pool of 11 maps for the whole year? We could play maps 1 - 7 during the fall season, maps 3 - 9 during winter season and maps 5 - 11 during spring season, couldn't we?

If you want to keep the 7 maps pool, I would like to see some of the 'meta' maps being swapped with the newer ones.
 First, these maps (badlands/snakewater/gullywash/process/granary) are the most played and (almost) everything is figured out, which can be boring. 
Then some maps create more stalemates (snake/granary), which can be boring too. 
Finally with newer maps we can see more exciting and messy plays as teams make mistakes and learn the maps. I remember watching TF2 5 years ago, it was fun to see because the play back then wasn't at all as well figured out as today, and was more varied, if less efficient.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2016 20:45:11 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by freddiaN</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-2/?recent=560493#post=557650</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Weapon Pickups: well, we didn't really use it, but it would be interresting from a med's Perspective... but like I said, our med didnt really use/abuse (haha cpma jokes) it.

Reckoner vs Sunshine: I think both are great and I would rather remove something like Granary for it instead of choose one of these.

koth_forge_b3: I really like the flank route under the point. While we first thought that it was to big, it didn't felt as bad as it seemd (atleast for me).

Addition of Brass Beast and Pomson: ¯_(ツ)_/¯]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2016 20:08:31 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by ninlop</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-2/?recent=560493#post=557643</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[The cowmangler's alt shot is basically just crit rockets when ever you want, I really dont want to see this weapon allowed in season 25]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:39:17 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by MrSmithers</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-1/?recent=560493#post=557641</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[me and my roamer both used full time cow mangler on both maps on forge.

basically we would both rollout right side, stand on our shed (with the ammo pack) and one of us alt-fired at choke, and the other through the window. hit someone from their combo damn near every time.

when we had the point wed sit on their shed and alt-fire at the entrance at that side, one on each side. killed so many pushes. roamer also got an alt fire airshot, so that was pretty fun]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:07:43 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by ninlop</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-1/?recent=560493#post=557640</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[In future can you please change the timing / duration of rounds when playing a cup.
This was my first cup, and it went on for such a long time without breaks between rounds, that by the time i was playing the second, me, and my entire team felt too fatigued to play at our best, it is extremely exhausting to play such a long amount of time with out breaks, so in future would the ETF2L admins please consider separating the rounds throughout the day with 30 - 1 hour gaps between, so that extended games, games that started later won't interfere with the next, and that teams and players, can recollect their brains and thoughts before playing the next game so that they don't feel completely brain-dead.
Thankyou - Ninlop]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2016 16:55:20 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by HK_Maxi</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-1/?recent=560493#post=557636</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Sunshine and Reckoner were both fun, should be in the season.
Didn't see any medigun or weapon pickups, maybe people forgot it was allowed.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2016 15:14:44 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by W. WIlly</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-1/?recent=560493#post=557635</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I'd personally like to play Sunshine next season. The latest update fixed a lot of different issues and made it much more pleasing to play on this map. Reckoner also had some improvements.

Unfortunately, can't really say anything good about Forge. The only thing I liked about it is that it's not dominated by Snipers like Viaduct. I still really dislike the map, the way it's built and the way it looks. Also some areas gave me ridiculous fps drops, which wasn't pleasing at all.

I personally didn't have any issues with weapon pickups so far, same for new unlocks and Cow Mangler (no one used those). I would try Cow Mangler if I played Soldier though, but none of my teammates and enemies did.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2016 14:54:31 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Bloodis</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-33377/page-1/?recent=560493#post=557634</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Along with that huge wall of text, how many Mediguns were picked up yesterday?
Or rather, how many soldiers used the Cow Mangler for the whole day?

We would love to hear your feedback from yesterday as we would plan on possibly making new polls yet again for the upcoming season.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2016 14:53:05 +0200</pubDate>
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