ETF2L – Latest activity in “Consider taking B.A.S.E. Jumper off the whitelist.”

ETF2L – Latest activity in “Consider taking B.A.S.E. Jumper off the whitelist.” https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/ Reply by Fuxx https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-2/?recent=514218#post=514218 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514218 Wed, 01 Oct 2014 22:42:29 +0200 Reply by Ond kaja https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-2/?recent=514218#post=514217 Quoted from Fuxx

[...] If we assume that an exploit should only be banned if abusing it is overpowered then yes, that makes sense. You're not explaining the reason behind this assumption however and you still define this as being underpowered even though you admit that yes it is useful in at least some situations. It is also gamebreaking (even if "slightly") to hover around a sentry that can't inflict damage on you. Allow me to give examples of abuse taking place: Suicide bombing at the start of a payload map, like Badwater. Sentries are left unwrangled on purpose to deal with jumpers automatically, but now they deal zero damage and so you have significantly more airtime, as the main damage dealer to you has been neutralized. In the time it takes for the enemy team to kill you you've already been able to deal significant damage with sticky spam. This forces the defending team's combo to focus fire on the Demo specifically, allowing the soldier to jump in without contest at the same time. Since sentry is trying to shoot the demo, it doesn't do anything to stop the soldier who can help deal more damage. edit: And this doesn't include situations in which the combo is already occupied with something else, dead or unable to deal with bug abusing demos for whatever other reason. "So just use wrangler instead", I can predict some of you saying Well, remember when in Upward you could drop the BLU medic in spawn during setup through a tiny tiny hole? Literally all you had to do to avoid that fate was to not stand in the extremely restricted and limited place that can get you killed while the sniper is looking at it, yet it was banned anyway. Not overpowered, only doable a single time in only a single map but enough to change rules. The only difference is that it had nothing to do with unlocks.

That's not necessarily true. If the soldier is closer to the sentry than the demoman is, the sentry will focus the soldier. If the demo floats closer to the sentry in order to make more room for the soldier, he will be easier to focus down because that mean's he will be closer to the combo as well. So you have a situation where either the soldier gets focused down by the sentry, or the demoman is easily focused down. The question isn't if this is viable, because that's pure speculation. The question is if it's more viable than just a regular suicide round. My intuition says that it's just as viable. I never argued for banning the sniper exploit. To be honest, I'd allow that shit since it's in the map and teams should know the map or otherwise get punished for it. It wasn't game breaking and easily avoided. I even argued against banning the teleporter exploit on upward last, sadly to no avail. But these bans are easier to justify because they only ban the exploit itself. Banning an entire weapon has more implications to the game.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514217 Wed, 01 Oct 2014 22:27:37 +0200 Reply by Fuxx https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-2/?recent=514218#post=514213 Quoted from ondkaja

-snip-

If we assume that an exploit should only be banned if abusing it is overpowered then yes, that makes sense. You're not explaining the reason behind this assumption however and you still define this as being underpowered even though you admit that yes it is useful in at least some situations. It is also gamebreaking (even if "slightly") to hover around a sentry that can't inflict damage on you. Allow me to give examples of abuse taking place: Suicide bombing at the start of a payload map, like Badwater. Sentries are left unwrangled on purpose to deal with jumpers automatically, but now they deal zero damage and so you have significantly more airtime, as the main damage dealer to you has been neutralized. In the time it takes for the enemy team to kill you you've already been able to deal significant damage with sticky spam. This forces the defending team's combo to focus fire on the Demo specifically, allowing the soldier to jump in without contest at the same time. Since sentry is trying to shoot the demo, it doesn't do anything to stop the soldier who can help deal more damage. edit: And this doesn't include situations in which the combo is already occupied with something else, dead or unable to deal with bug abusing demos for whatever other reason. "So just use wrangler instead", I can predict some of you saying Well, remember when in Upward you could drop the BLU medic in spawn during setup through a tiny tiny hole? Literally all you had to do to avoid that fate was to not stand in the extremely restricted and limited place that can get you killed while the sniper is looking at it, yet it was banned anyway. Not overpowered, only doable a single time in only a single map but enough to change rules. The only difference is that it had nothing to do with unlocks.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514213 Wed, 01 Oct 2014 21:28:01 +0200 Reply by Jwso https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-2/?recent=514218#post=514211 Quoted from ondkaja

a few spots on every map

ok that sounds fine]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514211 Wed, 01 Oct 2014 20:58:59 +0200 Reply by Ond kaja https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-2/?recent=514218#post=514142 Quoted from Fuxx

It's a glitch nonetheless and can still be abused against just about every sentry spot in just about every map, opening more opportunities that should not exist.

No, there's only a few spots on every map where doing this glitch actually opens up oppurtunities that didn't already exist. In all situations it's far more useful for a demo to be extremely high up in the skybox with the base jumper, well outside the sentry range, in order to not get killed while having time to put out as much stickies as possible. This is how qnx does it and that's how he has achieved moderate success. I've yet to see anyone being useful with the base jumper while floating in the opponents' face. Only in situations where it is physically impossible to avoid the sentry range would this glitch open up oppurtunities that didn't already exist. Like on upward last, steel, gullywash last etc. But since the BASE jumper isn't effectiveat this range, we can conclude that there are very few points where this is actually a viable tactic. If somebody can actually prove that this glitch in particular is overpowered (and not just baseless speculation that borders into wishful thinking *cough* Reservoir Dog *cough*) and game breaking, then maybe a ban should be considered. But until then, stop whining and learn to adapt. It would be a pity to ban the BASE jumper because it is actually a fun and interesting weapon.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514142 Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:13:30 +0200 Reply by Fuxx https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-2/?recent=514218#post=514140 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514140 Tue, 30 Sep 2014 22:42:14 +0200 Reply by enzyme https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-2/?recent=514218#post=514139 Quoted from Popcorp

[...] http://youtu.be/T9wsz5qbaTI?t=8m41s

yeah but surely he wouldnt have been in range of that sentry anyway, so it wasn't a factor]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514139 Tue, 30 Sep 2014 22:24:53 +0200 Reply by MrCirlo https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-1/?recent=514218#post=514137 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514137 Tue, 30 Sep 2014 22:07:45 +0200 Reply by CHERRY COKE https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-1/?recent=514218#post=514135 Quoted from fraac

[...] Never let the police search your car. But this is more like sand getting in your car when you visit the beach.

I don't know how is it in Russia, but here they can even search your baggage when they pull you off, not everyone lives where you do and law is different everywhere :).]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514135 Tue, 30 Sep 2014 22:05:02 +0200 Reply by popcorp https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-1/?recent=514218#post=514127 Quoted from Starkie

how does it affect gameplay? surely if you have the parachute out youre a sitting duck for everything

http://youtu.be/T9wsz5qbaTI?t=8m41s]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514127 Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:33:42 +0200 Reply by enzyme https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-1/?recent=514218#post=514125 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514125 Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:06:11 +0200 Reply by fraac https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-1/?recent=514218#post=514124 Quoted from Kengur

[...] "I'm sorry officer, I have no idea how this pot got into my car" doesn't really fly

Never let the police search your car. But this is more like sand getting in your car when you visit the beach.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514124 Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:05:33 +0200 Reply by olBaa https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-1/?recent=514218#post=514123 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514123 Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:00:21 +0200 Reply by Toba https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-1/?recent=514218#post=514119 Quoted from Atzebumm

While testing new suicide jumps we found a glitch with the B.A.S.E. Jumper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1__xT_QuvjI As long as it isn't fixxed by valve, putting it off the whitelist would be a nice idea.

here i was confused about why qnx didn't take any damage in the bronze final from my sentry.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514119 Tue, 30 Sep 2014 19:32:41 +0200 Reply by Kengur https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-30396/page-1/?recent=514218#post=514098 Quoted from fraac

[...] Not sure I understand how it's done. Doesn't it just happen when you float in range of a sentry?

"I'm sorry officer, I have no idea how this pot got into my car" doesn't really fly]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=30396&post=514098 Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:37:47 +0200