ETF2L – Latest activity in “ETF2L S16 Ruleset Feedback” https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/ Reply by Quell https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-13/?recent=471598#post=471598 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471598 Fri, 20 Sep 2013 20:49:40 +0200 Reply by accless https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-13/?recent=471598#post=471537 Quoted from Fuxx
http://static.tumblr.com/v4vvd40/m75lmpfhe/tumblr_llgaeahjah1qiyqyfo1_500.gif I posted that because I knew how it could be misinterpreted and I genuinely do not wish to offend. I have no reason to be petty over something like this. Why can't we be friends?
We can! I don't mind people arguing about pyro/unlocks/whatever at all as long as we're all being reasonable. What I do mind is people making fun of the paralympics, the mentally disabled -in the same utterly dumb sentence no less- and then assuming that people will still take you seriously after that.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471537 Fri, 20 Sep 2013 01:29:57 +0200 Reply by Mana https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-13/?recent=471598#post=471536 Quoted from Fuxx
I could keep on arguing but I'd rather not drag this on and on and on for the sake of avoiding redundancy. After all, there is a saying that says "arguing on the internet is like competing in the special Olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded" (not saying this to offend, so if you feel that way then I'm sorry, that was not my intention) so I'm going to go ahead and drop out of it. If you want to take this as you coming out victorious over the argument then, well, so be it, however I'll have to state just one last thing and that is this: Epsilon and/or Prem div in general does not encompass the entirety of etf2l. You have to look at the big picture, at the league in it's entirety.
I feel like my previous post pretty much covers all that needs to be said about the Pyro class. I don't care if I "win" an argument, because I play in NA. It's not my scene that's getting affected, but an illogical argument is an illogical argument. In short, I have no motive or incentive for winning or losing arguments because it's not affecting me. It'd be nice if you would actually sit down and have a logical conversation, because that's all I care about when I'm posting. Outside of playing the game, I want to encourage good discourse and connections between the scenes. The thing about asking Prem players (equivalent to NA's Invite), is that THEY are the innovators and executors of meta changes. What they choose to do and how they analyze the meta definitely influences the rest of the league, whether or not you care or like it. EDIT: I should also add, none of this personal, I don't even know who you are and hence I have no opinion of you. If you're aware of who I am you would also know I'm quite good friends with a decent amount of EU players. EDIT2: The last thing I want to add is it's incredibly dumb when people attempt to discredit an argument by saying "it's just an opinion". There's a huge difference between crafting a well-informed, sharp, and concise opinion versus a mushy, poop-covered, ad hominen laced knee-jerk reaction. Can opinions be wrong? No, but they can still be bad, especially if you're forming those opinions from incorrect facts.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471536 Fri, 20 Sep 2013 01:22:39 +0200 Reply by ashnazg https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-13/?recent=471598#post=471534 Quoted from Fuxx
Why can't we be friends?
Because you dont shut up.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471534 Fri, 20 Sep 2013 01:10:10 +0200 Reply by Fuxx https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-12/?recent=471598#post=471533 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471533 Fri, 20 Sep 2013 01:07:42 +0200 Reply by accless https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-12/?recent=471598#post=471531 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471531 Fri, 20 Sep 2013 01:01:27 +0200 Reply by Fuxx https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-12/?recent=471598#post=471529 "arguing on the internet is like competing in the special Olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded" (not saying this to offend, so if you feel that way then I'm sorry, that was not my intention) so I'm going to go ahead and drop out of it. If you want to take this as you coming out victorious over the argument then, well, so be it, however I'll have to state just one last thing and that is this: Epsilon and/or Prem div in general does not encompass the entirety of etf2l. You have to look at the big picture, at the league in it's entirety.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471529 Fri, 20 Sep 2013 00:54:53 +0200 Reply by Mana https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-12/?recent=471598#post=471522 Quoted from Fuxx
[...] Personal experience, observing others and a simple application of basic logic. These changes shook EU's meta and if people don't adapt or at the very least get used to playing against clever pyros then they're just going to get rolled on. NA had the chance to get used to this alternate playstyle and even accompany the evolution of pyro over the years. Afterburn changes, reflect mini crits, flaregun crits, the degreaser, etc. only showed up after this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndZoP4yctqA and while you had the chance to get used to it, EU did not. It's suddenly being thrown out at us, the only time we have to adapt being these past couple of weeks. Highlander players in specific now stand a better chance than ever before in advancing in 6v6 because of this.
Wow, considering that you guys just won an i-series you sure are discrediting how strong the EU scene is. Only bad teams would ever say that a meta shift is "too much" for them. It's a competitive league, if you aren't adapting to the strats of the other team then you're rightfully the team that's worse. It's not like no one is familiar with the Pyro is capable of. The Pyro's role only changes marginally (I talk about this later). Teams could run Pyros before and have it be about as effective. It's only that it's had a change people are messing around, but if the EU scene is as strong as I'm giving them credit for (and I give them a lot of credit), then teams will revert back to the meta pre-Pyro unlocks because PYRO IS NOT VIABLE FULL TIME. If it was, we would have already seen it in NA, much more than one frag video with many gimmick kills (I have huge respect for BloodSire, but it's not even close to viable on any map except Gravel Pit, and that video is old news at this point). I'm seriously laughing at the fact that you think that one frag video has had an impact on the Pyro meta. I know this isn't representative of the EU scene but that's so wimpy it's surprising. Quoted from Fuxx
I mention the flaregun specificalyl because it really is OP in the right hands (well, then you could call virtually everything OP as long as it's the right hands, but the point I'm getting here is that now people have one more thing to worry about). Only a fool would not immediately realize that these newly whitelisted unlocks won't make a significant impact. Does this mean 24/7 pyros? Probably not, but obviously there will be a very visible increase of people off-classing to it.
You have to be joking with this paragraph. A flare gun is only good at close range (and that's if a Pyro is left unchecked which should NEVER be the case). At long range it can be dodged much easier than, say, a Sniper's headshot. Not to mention to get the flare crits that would imply that the SAME person would have to be hit TWICE consecutively, which means that your team is terrible at positioning and doesn't know how to move around. Only a fool wouldn't think this makes significant impact? Ad hominems aside (AFAIK most Prem players are perfectly fine with this change, so have fun insulting them), we've had these unlocks in NA and Pyro is still only used in two situations: significant uber disadvantage or gimmick plays. If you have teamwork then gimmick plays never work. If you have significant uber disadvantage, the Pyro needs to sit at the choke of an incoming uber and just M2 all day. There's very little room for a Pyro actually using those unlocks unless you let him. He's only dangerous at short range, so as long as you aren't caught out of position (which shouldn't happen because Pyros really only work defensively) he is incredibly easy to focus fire.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471522 Thu, 19 Sep 2013 23:52:17 +0200 Reply by Fuxx https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-12/?recent=471598#post=471517 Quoted from rytis
fuck me metalworks is so aids, I really do hope it gets removed
Still better than viaduct]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471517 Thu, 19 Sep 2013 23:34:28 +0200 Reply by Animal https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-12/?recent=471598#post=471511 Quoted from rytis
fuck me metalworks is so aids, I really do hope it gets removed
mad cuz bad?]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471511 Thu, 19 Sep 2013 22:45:00 +0200 Reply by Rychius https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-12/?recent=471598#post=471510 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471510 Thu, 19 Sep 2013 22:44:02 +0200 Reply by Fuxx https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-12/?recent=471598#post=471491 Quoted from mana
[...] Do you have any background sources or organized matches that prove this? We've had these unlocks in NA since forever.
Personal experience, observing others and a simple application of basic logic. These changes shook EU's meta and if people don't adapt or at the very least get used to playing against clever pyros then they're just going to get rolled on. NA had the chance to get used to this alternate playstyle and even accompany the evolution of pyro over the years. Afterburn changes, reflect mini crits, flaregun crits, the degreaser, etc. only showed up after this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndZoP4yctqA and while you had the chance to get used to it, EU did not. It's suddenly being thrown out at us, the only time we have to adapt being these past couple of weeks. Highlander players in specific now stand a better chance than ever before in advancing in 6v6 because of this. I mention the flaregun specificalyl because it really is OP in the right hands (well, then you could call virtually everything OP as long as it's the right hands, but the point I'm getting here is that now people have one more thing to worry about). Only a fool would not immediately realize that these newly whitelisted unlocks won't make a significant impact. Does this mean 24/7 pyros? Probably not, but obviously there will be a very visible increase of people off-classing to it.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471491 Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:55:28 +0200 Reply by Setlet https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-12/?recent=471598#post=471399 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471399 Thu, 19 Sep 2013 00:12:13 +0200 Reply by Spike Himself https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-12/?recent=471598#post=471398 Quoted from Fuxx
It's OP as fuck if the pyro is not shit and basically instakills scouts close to you, but if a pyro kills you with a long range flaregun then it was a deserved frag.
tl;dr don't get near the pyro]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471398 Thu, 19 Sep 2013 00:07:08 +0200 Reply by Mana https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-27141/page-12/?recent=471598#post=471376 Quoted from Fuxx
w+m1 is quicker than puff n' sting. What's actually game-changing is the degreaser+flare gun combo. It's OP as fuck if the pyro is not shit and basically instakills scouts close to you, but if a pyro kills you with a long range flaregun then it was a deserved frag. I wonder if roamers will begin using shotgun more often just because of this- or shotgun pyros meant specifically to counter other pyros.
Do you have any background sources or organized matches that prove this? We've had these unlocks in NA since forever.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=feedback&topic=27141&post=471376 Wed, 18 Sep 2013 22:52:00 +0200