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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;Wildcards&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by kaidus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-6/?recent=416224#post=416224</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Ye the current system is flawed. I like ETF2L sticking to their guns as far as enforcing the rules, but for next season I think some minor changes are needed. If there's going to be a catch-up week, then two things need to happen:
1. It needs to be confirmed before the season begins, not a week before the week itself.
2. It should be treated as part of the regular season (meaning wildcard and extension rules remain intact for this week).

#1 is important because I assume the reason the rules are different for catch-up week is because teams aren't obligated to play during that week, as they may have made plans for their teams season to end by this point (or at least, this is what I assume).

Also, I think there is still an issue with the default date rule. I like the fact you cannot request an extension if you get assigned a default date, but it's not particularly pragmatic to assign them on a thursday night. I appreciate the reasons for this, but something doesn't quite add up still as it seems more than reasonable to assume that a lot of teams won't be able to plan that far ahead. I'm not sure what the ideal solution would be, perhaps having the game week return to running monday-sunday would help but that comes with its own batch of inadequacies.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 18:37:41 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AcidReniX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-6/?recent=416224#post=416218</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Either way, do people agree that the system is flawed when you can take wildcards on every week except for the last one, or am the only one who actually sees a problem with that? The admins don't seem to, as has been made apparent by previous posts.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 18:16:48 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AcidReniX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-6/?recent=416224#post=416216</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[That's why you adopt the system I mentioned previously, or a slightly modified version of it, like:

If a wildcard is taken in week 7, then both teams must mention their availability for the next week.

The match date is then set to the first day that both teams agree on.

If neither of the team's availability schedule matches each other, then the team who is available the most, will have their first available date selected as the final match date. If both teams are unavailable for the entire duration of the following week, then the match result is nulled.

This prevents teams from faking that they are available, because if they aren't, then their match gets scheduled automatically if it matches their opponents dates.

This prevents teams from faking that they are unavailable, because they would end up with less availability than their opponents, resulting in their opponents getting the first choice which would mean the match is played anyway.

This prevents teams from outright refusing to play, unless their opponents did the same, because the match would either happen, or both teams would get 0-0.


It's just a bit stupid that wildcards exist for the whole season, to avoid situations where a small incidents of unavailability, such as net going down for 30 minutes or a powercut, would result in a default for one team, but then they get removed for the last week unless the opposing team agrees to it, at a point in the league when teams can see their potential final standings, and make a decision based entirely on that ("Oh, if we lose, we get relegated, and since it's entirely up to us, we might as well do that").

I know for sure if I was in that position, I'd definitely consider taking a default, especially in the prem, where a single win in the playoff stages can result in obtaining some sort of prize money or hardware prize.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 18:15:18 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Dukermons</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-6/?recent=416224#post=416166</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[It's almost impossible to prove someone is doing it deliberately though.

Can you play Tuesday?
No sorry, pocket has football practice.
Thursday then?
Nope, demo working late.
How about Sunday?
My mum's birthday so I can't.
BULLSHIT MAN!
Prove it shitter.

It's only one week so anything could be happening in that particular week, especially as players will be thinking the week free from matches and maybe arranged some form of RL activity.

I look forward to seeing your proposal.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 14:25:21 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by ilike2spin</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-6/?recent=416224#post=416163</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Monkeh</i>
		<blockquote>That doesn't work though as a team of douches sat in second place could refuse all attempts at scheduling from their week 7 opponents sat in third so they both get nil points and second gets promoted without playing that crucial last match.
</blockquote>

I still think cases like this should be looked at on a case by case basis, if someone is blatantly avoiding the scheduling, there should be admin intervention. I'm currently working on a proposal for how to determine the default winner in this sort of situation if a default date isn't given.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 14:16:29 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Dukermons</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-6/?recent=416224#post=416162</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I was going to say just don't give a default date for any wildcarded week 7 games. That doesn't work though as a team of douches sat in second place could refuse all attempts at scheduling from their week 7 opponents sat in third so they both get nil points and second gets promoted without playing that crucial last match.

Then forum threads and rage.

Current system causes forum posts and rage.

There has to be way around this surely...

Maybe allow an extra merc in week 7? 1 by default, up to 3 with opponents permission? Default has to have played their last season in same div or lower? 

Maybe say the team that uses a week 7 wildcard has no say on when the game is played in the catch up week as 'punishment'? Even if the other team then picks a day their opponents can't play it's the same as default for not being able to play on default date anyway?

Maybe always factor in 2 catch up weeks?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 14:12:32 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by ilike2spin</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-6/?recent=416224#post=416159</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[if you take that stance, wildcards shouldn't be allowed at all. Makes no sense to have inconsistent rules, either let all games be wildcarded or none.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 14:10:27 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by slate</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-6/?recent=416224#post=416155</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Monkeh</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

This is by far the most sensible point and idea posted so far.  If week 6 games can be postponed by 2 weeks there is absolutely no reason why a week 7 game can't be postponed for 1 week. That's just very simple maths innit.</blockquote>

This could happen:

"So we had default date for Week7 which fit us perfectly, then the other team wildcarded 20mins before the match was supposed to start. Then for the catch up week. we weren't sure if our players would be around, so we couldn't schedule. Now we got a def where we can't field a team. The other team doesnt want to reschedule.

How is it fair that they could wildcard the match and now that we can't make the default date we can't!"]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 13:43:31 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Noeandee</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-5/?recent=416224#post=416139</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[We have a.. let us say.. challenging team to schedule. I had multiple people in the team traveling, going abroad, sleeping disorders (hi sparky), etc. But we managed. So I can relate somewhat to 'dc' here. 

The wildcard problem in week 7 bothered us too, since we had little people available in that week. But you can always ask the admins to schedule in a catch-up week when the other team agrees. At least you would have been heard about a possible default date that might have suited both teams?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 12:04:56 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Dukermons</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-5/?recent=416224#post=416132</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from AcidReniX</i>
		<blockquote>Since week 6 games could potentially be played 2 weeks after the week 6 deadline (through two wildcards), you could have it so that week 7 games could be wildcarded, but with only a 1 week grace period (even if a wildcard is used by _both_ teams, the new dates still have to _both_ fall in the following week)....because it means week 6 games can finish later than week 7 games, and the reason given for having no reschedule options for week 7 is, "There's no time".... . . .. but the week 6 games. .. *sigh*</blockquote>

This is by far the most sensible point and idea posted so far.  If week 6 games can be postponed by 2 weeks there is absolutely no reason why a week 7 game can't be postponed for 1 week. That's just very simple maths innit.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 11:42:55 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AcidReniX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-5/?recent=416224#post=416131</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[But it's still better than not being able to play at all.
currently with Week 7, you only get one day to play the game, if you can't make it, then you have to give a default win to your opponents.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 11:33:32 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Oxy</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-5/?recent=416224#post=416065</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from MIndYe</i>
		<blockquote>ETF2L has 2 systems to delay games for a week if you can't agree on a date. (Wildcard and admin permission)
ETF2L also has an extra week to play games.
How about COMBINING THEM (I know, it sounds crazy) so you can wildcard your week 7 game and play it on catchup week. Fucking brilliant!</blockquote>

- Last day of week 7 a game is wildcarded &#62;&#62;&#62;
- Team that didn't wildcard can only play early in catch up week and now have to schedule the game and get it played extremely quickly despite it not being there fault &#62;&#62;&#62;
 - Another thread of forum whining.

Not saying your idea is bad, just saying every method has its problems.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:26:03 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by MInd-</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-5/?recent=416224#post=416062</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[ETF2L has 2 systems to delay games for a week if you can't agree on a date. (Wildcard and admin permission)
ETF2L also has an extra week to play games.
How about COMBINING THEM (I know, it sounds crazy) so you can wildcard your week 7 game and play it on catchup week. Fucking brilliant!]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:19:37 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by AcidReniX</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-5/?recent=416224#post=416061</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Was just trying to get the concept through, rather than the actual method. I didn't mean to actually go up to one team, and ask them, then go to the other team, and ask them, then go back and ask the first team the next day.....

Just was how I thought would be best to explain it :P]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:18:11 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by CannonFodd3r</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-23185/page-5/?recent=416224#post=416060</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I imagine you meant something like a doodle, Arx? It would be like the current system but a bit more gimmicky and limited.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:13:28 +0100</pubDate>
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