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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;[HL] Experimental Cup #1 - Map Feedback&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by honeymustard</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-3/?recent=366667#post=366667</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Can you get screenshots of these dead ends? Because there are none that I know of.

And the doors that open when points are capped... well:

A - The door from A to E and the door from A to D opens
B - The door from B to C opens
C - No doors open
D - No doors open
E - The game ends

:s]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:05:40 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Alx</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-3/?recent=366667#post=366660</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<strong>upland:</strong>

The spawn part in the middle is a friggin labyrinth. There are way too many corners everywhere and unnecessary dead-ends.

It needs to be much clearer which entrance leads to which point, and it needs to be much more logical. Re-think and remove all those dead ends everywhere.

Also fix all those gates which only opens after a certain point is capped. Keep max 2 at some key places.

<em>Simplify, simplify and simplify the layout</em>. Also make the points special features stand out more and be more unique and clear, instead of a maze of props and ways to go.
 
The whole map feels far from finished and very unpolished. It's like a bad version of steel.

<strong>turbine_pro:</strong>
There are better HL maps around, feels a bit small and boring. Works alright I guess, but still not as good as others. The int capping is something different though.

<strong>barnblitz / foundry</strong>
The most promising ones I'd say. Both decent and fun to play for most classes. Personal pick would be barnblitz. Foundry is a bit too open and sniper-friendly for my taste.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:37:57 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by kurt</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-3/?recent=366667#post=366603</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[upland lacks any distinctive graphical or gameplay features. Whole map looks the same except for the last point. On some points you can cap behind the corrugated metal.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:58:28 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by The7alfa</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-3/?recent=366667#post=366600</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[all shit besides turbine]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:28:47 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Linus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-3/?recent=366667#post=366558</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from CUBE</i>
		<blockquote>[...]
Speak for yourself...</blockquote>

Need a break for the pyro after all the excitement on the other maps...]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:30:06 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Thalash</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-3/?recent=366667#post=366553</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[cp_foundry is a great map for highlander imo.

upland is not bad, but theres so many better options.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:07:07 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by POEcube</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-3/?recent=366667#post=366509</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Linus</i>
		<blockquote>Foundry - best 5cp in highlander, quite fun for any class I believe</blockquote>
Speak for yourself...]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:44:06 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by pala4</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-3/?recent=366667#post=366508</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I like "steel" style maps, butjust  bring back steel to mappool and it will be ok, cp_upland is not a bad map but it should be updated and more balanced

I liked barnblitz a lot, it requires a good teamplay, especially while attacking the last point

foundry is not fun to play, a stalemate map]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:42:51 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by slate</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-3/?recent=366667#post=366507</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I've heard upland also has the overtime bug á la steel and gravelpit]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:27:19 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Linus</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-2/?recent=366667#post=366497</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Barnblitz - will play in the final, havent played it yet properly in hl apart from maybe one occasion ages ago..

Foundry - best 5cp in highlander, quite fun for any class I believe, should be in the map pool for s2, and im saying that even though i think its a pretty bad map for 6v6.

Upland - My first thought was "what the hell is this map supposed to be". What at first sight feels like a random maze map thats only focus is to confuse the players is actually a quite clever layout much like steel, except with a lot more vertical play which i actually like (reminds me of hightower in that sense).

The game we had (and won) was actually quite fun, with a couple of our players randomly getting lost and falling off the map. The only downside is that given its complexity it is going to recieve a lot of hatred.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:35:03 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by TviQ</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-2/?recent=366667#post=366480</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Also remove some of these choke points, Between A-D example And make some entrances bigger like moving from B to E Making it larger all around as it sooo easy to just spam like shit, It worked in steel (sort of) as generlly that map is small compared to upland its fucking gigantic So moving between all of these diffrent points with diffrent hights on the points and looots of entrances to cover. A lot of entraces to cover might help slighlty with the size of each point but really it's goddamn annoying. :) i've also got loads of Bugspots where your supposly not to sit in, Add me on steam and I'll show you :D]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:56:47 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by IceRedFox</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-2/?recent=366667#post=366453</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Well, the cup showed that knowledge of the map is much more useful than dm skill :]

I haven't played 1st round @ pl_barnblitz, but I played it a lot before. This map is very good, except for the last point, which is quite easy to defend and capturing it requires huge uber/player advantage (still pl_upward is pretty similar in that way). So I think that the best way to play this map (as long as mentioned upward or badwater) is bo3 (UGC-style).

The 2nd round was very fun, because cp_foundry is atm the best 5cp map for 9v9. It is sniper-friendly, maybe, but it is good still. Though I don't like 5cp maps for highlander and I suppose that perfect mappool should contain only AD/PL/KOTH.

The 3rd map is emm difficult. It has potential, but needs to be simplified and balanced against snipers watching spawns. Also this map requires A LOT OF PRACTISE. And another moment - yesterday our medic died when he falled in a hell pit near the red spawn when defending A, he is still upset.

Finals are gonna be spectacular anyway.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:33:16 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by s3</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-2/?recent=366667#post=366424</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Hildreth</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

s3 - this is the map creator here posting on the map. ;)</blockquote>
Oh, mark is honeymustard :O

Well fuck, how was I supposed to know? :P
All I'd heard until now was that the creator had pretty much called it done and moved on, but if we'll see some updates I am quite excited indeed! If he suffers from td;dr disease, my complaints are: hard to attack D due to low-ground disadvantage, alternative routes (around back) are extremely dangerous due to airblast. Spawn times, not sure how they are tweaked but they seem really long sometimes for defenders. Glad to see that the map might have some life in it still!]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:52:56 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Hildreth</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-2/?recent=366667#post=366420</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Mark</i>
		<blockquote>Well yeah, it's a bug. Remember that the maps you're testing aren't finished.</blockquote>

s3 - this is the map creator here posting on the map. ;)]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:01:02 +0100</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by s3</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-20194/page-2/?recent=366667#post=366419</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I rather like cp_upland. I didn't play in this cup (will play in the finals though) but I've played it 4-5 times in pcws/doublemixes. It does have a lot of nooks, crannies and side-passages, but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing. I've enjoyed it every time I've played it at least, even though it's mostly been headless chickens running around. Certain points seem hard to push, like C (massive high ground advantage from all sides for defenders) and spawn times seem a bit off. If you kill a few players you can pretty much cap E before they spawn if you put some effort into it, even if you only had A and maybe B beforehand.

However! If the creator won't update it, there's no reason to keep playing it. The map has great potential, but it's not perfect in its current state. The problems we've found in 4-5 games will only be the start of the list after 20+ games, so unless the creator agrees to tweak it... we might as well scrap it now and save ourselves the frustration. If anyone knows honeymustard, badger and pester him to get cracking. It could be a  really nice highlander and pub map, but tweaking is definitely needed.

In other news, you might consider some other custom maps. I may be in the minority, but I've sort-of enjoyed some of the CTF maps that Wireplay 7v7 has run, namely ctf_cloudburst and ctf_converge. CTF can be done in TF2, but all the official maps are shit. I mean really, who likes 2fort, doublecross and turbine? F2Ps and shitters, that's who. ctf_converge is a different take on CTF, where you have to deliver the flag to the enemy's base instead of bringing it home, which leads to some funny strategies. ctf_cloudburst is normal CTF, but... better. Easier to cap, harder to defend. More dynamic and energetic games than what you'll get on the official CTF maps.
There are other interesting concept maps (standin for example) that might be worth trying. Something I'd like to try but haven't seen done yet is something like "single stage TC", that is... each team has one control point, and whoever holds both points first (or holds both for a certain amount of time) wins. So, like KOTH but with 2 points. Maybe it's been done already, but it would be interesting... I think.

And as for foundry: Too sniper friendly, in highlander I've played doublemixes where one sniper was able to pretty much carry a team with the huge sniper sight lines. I'm sure yoyotech (and therefore SNSD) will agree here, considering the treatment their medic received in 6v6 against broder on cp_foundry. It can work, but it's not quite there yet.

Barnblitz, haven't played it enough yet. I'm sure SNSD will show us why it's fucked in the upcoming cup finals though, so stay tuned.

And that's the end of my novel for now. Cheers.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:44:37 +0100</pubDate>
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