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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;F.14&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by Iplaynaked</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-2/?recent=335874#post=335874</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Swarlz</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

Xzr, you remind me of one of those things - you know 50% of the popultion have them? Smell like an old fish market, looks like an old mans eye who suffers from serious eye infections... god damn it it will come to me eventually

Edit* 

Oh yes a cunt.</blockquote>

damn i'm funny.

such a statement is obviously in jest however
also thanks for the response ashkan. top admin]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 18:36:23 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by ashkan</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-2/?recent=335874#post=335851</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Swarlz</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

Well I'm not sure what he means, however I still think it's important that the rules implace are actually inforced. For instance the very point I made in the first thread the rules clearly state that the thread will be deleted and people given a warning. In which case n00ne would be on his second warning and banned from the above links.

When I recieved my forum ban it was for calling a certain induvidual a 'cunt' in a joking maner and had only been done once however I recieved an instant week ban even though the rule is 

F.3 - Please do not swear at other members in the TF2 Community, swearing is only deemed appropriate when used in the humour or joking form.

even if it could of been seen as being directed at them in an agressive way the ban should only be given if I had recieved a warning, which I had not.

'Hostility/Nasty’ness’/Inappropriate Manners – A heavy warning, if the person continues then a temporary if not lengthy ban.'

Few months later I did more or less the same thing and only recived a cool down of a day even though under

Punishment for Re-offenders

it clearly states it should be doubled.

Everything seems to be down the admin who deals the ban rather than the actual rules which appear to be more guidelines. 

I'll edit with thread links as and when found</blockquote>

Let's have a look at what you did to earn the first ban:

<i>Quoted from Swarlz</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

Xzr, you remind me of one of those things - you know 50% of the popultion have them? Smell like an old fish market, looks like an old mans eye who suffers from serious eye infections... god damn it it will come to me eventually

Edit* 

Oh yes a cunt.</blockquote>

Two thread-wide warnings were made shortly before that post. That means you ignored two recent warnings.

I will assume that you no longer contest punishment for making such a statement.

When it comes to what exact punishment, that's up the the admins. Was he being serious? How did the person it was directed towards interpret it? How severe was it? Had there been previous warnings in the thread? Had the player made previous posts that could build up to a ban? Keep in mind that the "rules" you quoted are in fact guidelines (read the headline), and that by the end of the day, there will be a need for admins to adjust the punishment according to the circumstances.

Believe me when I say that no one sees more flaws in the forum rules than the moderators themselves. I've made several suggestions for improvements in the forum structure and rules, some of which have been implemented, while others have been put on hold until we have time to work on them again. As I said, some changes need to be made so that the age-old rules reflect reality better. There are also technical improvements that could be made to make the admins' lives easier, but wouldn't change the user experience much. Those require active site admins, which the head admins are looking at. Then there are changes that improve forum quality, such as the feedback threads you've been seeing lately, or an improved forum structure we're working on.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 17:24:58 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Iplaynaked</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-2/?recent=335874#post=335836</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Spike Himself</i>
		<blockquote>Swarlz, are you drunk again?</blockquote>

I just like complaining]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:52:31 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Spike Himself</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335831</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[Swarlz, are you drunk again?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:41:41 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Sneis</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335829</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I thought it was obvious for everyone that this forum allows everything cuz there are not enough forum admins to keep up with insults and everything else that does not belong here. The rule about religion and politics is of necessity but is not followed. Looking back at post about 2 years old they are mostly of way better quality subjects and with more respect towards each other.

Not gonna jump into what is right and wrong or how it came down to that, but if u start handing out forum bans and delete threads its gonna have to be consistent and done by active forum admins. Doing it half doneish will just make it worse.

To make it short i would prefer a teamliquid style forum than an etf2l version, but it requires way more from a bigger admin crew(?).]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:38:37 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Iplaynaked</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335828</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from ashkan</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

I think all admins and players realize the need to be consistent. He mentioned something about swearing, though, which leads me to believe that there are concrete examples of recent posts having been overlooked. Any reports of such posts are greatly appreciated.

In addition to that, he could be claiming that admins should punish everyone who swears. That's why I wanted to make it clear what the rules are against swearing.

I am of course assuming that he was not trying to say "If one person should not have sweared, everyone should have sweared", which is what his post actually means.

edit: It's hard to improve if you don't know what you did wrong (or what others think you did wrong), so examples would be helpful.</blockquote>

Well I'm not sure what he means, however I still think it's important that the rules implace are actually inforced. For instance the very point I made in the first thread the rules clearly state that the thread will be deleted and people given a warning. In which case n00ne would be on his second warning and banned from the above links.

When I recieved my forum ban it was for calling a certain induvidual a 'cunt' in a joking maner and had only been done once however I recieved an instant week ban even though the rule is 

F.3 - Please do not swear at other members in the TF2 Community, swearing is only deemed appropriate when used in the humour or joking form.

even if it could of been seen as being directed at them in an agressive way the ban should only be given if I had recieved a warning, which I had not.

'Hostility/Nasty’ness’/Inappropriate Manners – A heavy warning, if the person continues then a temporary if not lengthy ban.'

Few months later I did more or less the same thing and only recived a cool down of a day even though under

Punishment for Re-offenders

it clearly states it should be doubled.

Everything seems to be down the admin who deals the ban rather than the actual rules which appear to be more guidelines. 

I'll edit with thread links as and when found]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:37:58 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by ashkan</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335825</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Swarlz</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

I think the point he's trying to make is for the admins to have more constitancy in there approach to punishments.</blockquote>

I think all admins and players realize the need to be consistent. He mentioned something about swearing, though, which leads me to believe that there are concrete examples of recent posts having been overlooked. Any reports of such posts are greatly appreciated.

In addition to that, he could be claiming that admins should punish everyone who swears. That's why I wanted to make it clear what the rules are against swearing.

I am of course assuming that he was not trying to say "If one person should not have sweared, everyone should have sweared", which is what his post actually means.

edit: It's hard to improve if you don't know what you did wrong (or what others think you did wrong), so examples would be helpful.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:24:11 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Iplaynaked</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335820</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from ashkan</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you please elaborate?

I should point out that swearing in itself is not against the rules. It mostly becomes a problem if used to flame or insult others, which is when the post will be reported, recorded and considered when future rule-breaks are committed by the player.</blockquote>

I think the point he's trying to make is for the admins to have more constitancy in there approach to punishments.

Also

<i>Quoted from sgN^</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

mfw: this post
http://data.fuskbugg.se/skalman02/8c5de1a1_1315543414729.gif</blockquote>

Hi sgN]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:13:49 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by sgN</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335818</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from FAINTAYDAYDAYDAYDAYD</i>
		<blockquote>just have a little consistency please. If one person shouldn't have sweared, noone shouldnt have sweared</blockquote>

mfw: this post
http://data.fuskbugg.se/skalman02/8c5de1a1_1315543414729.gif]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:11:11 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by ashkan</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335817</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from FAINTAYDAYDAYDAYDAYD</i>
		<blockquote>just have a little consistency please. If one person shouldn't have sweared, noone shouldnt have sweared</blockquote>

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you please elaborate?

I should point out that swearing in itself is not against the rules. It mostly becomes a problem if used to flame or insult others, which is when the post will be reported, recorded and considered when future rule-breaks are committed by the player.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:08:09 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by FainT.</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335810</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[just have a little consistency please. If one person shouldn't have sweared, noone shouldnt have sweared]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:52:34 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by ashkan</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335808</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Swarlz</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

Something along those lines.</blockquote>

I have already put in a request to have the rules changed to reflect reality better. This means that not all threads containing such posts will be deleted (at least not immediately), or that warnings/bans will be handed out every time. It all depends on the circumstances. The possible rule change is not highly prioritized at the moment though.

<i>Quoted from Chaplain</i>
		<blockquote>How about a religion and politics forum, kind of like a dragons be here, only available to registered users?</blockquote>

We're always open to suggestions, especially if there are good arguments for it.

In this case, I'm not too optimistic about such an idea. As the rules say, there are plenty of suitable online forums to discuss those subjects. Politics and religion have nothing to do directly with gaming, TF2, competitive TF2 or ETF2L. They will only create more work for admins, create bad blood between forum members and take up space, without contributing positively in any way. Since there's no reason for these discussions to be carried out between European competitive TF2 players, wouldn't it be better to discuss them on forums that were specifically designed and intended to handle them?

That's my opinion anyway.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:48:21 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by weaselo</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335775</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[How about a religion and politics forum, kind of like a dragons be here, only available to registered users?]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 14:23:50 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Iplaynaked</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335761</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from ashkan</i>
		<blockquote>I want to make sure I understand this correctly...
You want admins to start deleting such threads and hand out punishment, in accordance with the rules?</blockquote>

Something along those lines.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 13:43:58 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Noeandee</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-18406/page-1/?recent=335874#post=335746</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I think Swarlz should get a warning or ban just now. This thread refers to other religious/political threads and therefore should fall under F.14.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:47:10 +0200</pubDate>
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