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	<title>ETF2L &#8211; Latest activity in &#8220;ExtPlugin for TF2&#8221;</title>
	<link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/</link>
	<description><![CDATA[The latest posts to this topic.]]></description>
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    	    <title>Reply by emb</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-7/?recent=448584#post=448584</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[As we have <a href="http://etf2l.org/2013/04/27/season-15-powered-by-blackout-gaming-the-provisional-divisions-qualifiers-and-updates">http://etf2l.org/2013/04/27/season-15-powered-by-blackout-gaming-the-provisional-divisions-qualifiers-and-updates</a>officially declared[/url] client-side plugins as a cheat a week ago, it is time to close this thread. 

From this point forward, please do not link to or provide instructions for this and other banned plugins on ETF2L forums.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 03:01:10 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Laerin</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-7/?recent=448584#post=445821</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Spike Himself</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

Wow are you being serious? PREC and OpenPlugin are in no way similar. At all.

1. PREC is signed by Valve. Whatever it does has their approval.
2. PREC doesn't hack itself into the game

PREC allows you to do things that are already possible just more conveniently. For OpenPlugin this is not the case. OpenPlugin allows you change stuff that you're not normally allowed to change without sv_cheats or other limitations.

PREC is a signed plugin. OpenPlugin is a hack. Don't use it.</blockquote>

I'm sorry, I honestly don't mean to sound condescending here, but I said 'PREC and Openplugin are pretty similar in the fact' and then continued to explain a single similarity that I was referring to. I don't see why pointing out their differences has anything to do with that statement. 

You then went on to say that the similarity I mentioned (that they allow you to do things you could already do more conveniently) is incorrect. The big feature of OpenPlugin is the fov, which you can do already with custom resolutions/multiple monitors. I don't know about rivatuner for picmip. cl_downloadfilter doesn't affect anything ingame and allows to you to be able to download maps off a server without downloading all their other custom crap.

Now, as for the features themselves, I don't understand what objection you have to them. I'm not talking about the method by which they're utilised here. 

Allowing for a wider fov choice actually reduces the advantage of people using multiple monitors or 2:1 aspect ratios and makes it easier for people without widescreen monitors (I know at least one person who doesn't have one). Fov is as much preference though as sensitivity and having a higher fov isn't an advantage unless you're more comfortable playing on it. That's why on games like quake live, most people use an fov of either 90 or 100 instead of the max of 130. Picmip used to be allowed to go between -10 to 2 I'm pretty sure, the limits are pretty arbitrary and using a higher picmip is again just preference, like when people use fps configs despite not needing them.
 
Now, if you have no problem with the features themselves but in the method by which they're used, then that is a valid point. It is modifying the game to allow for greater customisation but again, I don't see why it should be a problem for anyone except those who decide to use it?

<i>Quoted from Odissius</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

Cool, thanks for the link/explanation.

Yeah, I mean I have the .dlls and stuff it's just that OpenPlugin only works with -insecure and well you can't connect to any servers with that now, so yeah, I can't get higher FOV any more.</blockquote>

No, that's what I'm saying, if you check the thread again, you'll see Anakin/Casual included a new way to use it without -insecure.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 17:07:29 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Dukermons</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-7/?recent=448584#post=445805</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from freshmeatt</i>
		<blockquote>
Please, don't speak up before applying empathy, imagination and common sense.</blockquote>

I empathetically sense common imagination here.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 15:38:38 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Darn</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-7/?recent=448584#post=445803</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Selek</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

[...]

[...]

You are most probably playing at a FOV of ~106 right now.

If you really think you need a FOV of 120 or more, use a custom resolution instead of a hack. It's as easy as that, no one can complain about it since it's built into the game.</blockquote>

custom resolution does not give the same effect]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 15:36:58 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by freshmeatt</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-7/?recent=448584#post=445802</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Selek</i>
		<blockquote>You are most probably playing at a FOV of ~106 right now.</blockquote>
Please, don't speak up before applying empathy, imagination and common sense.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 15:31:15 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by fraac</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-7/?recent=448584#post=445791</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[In this thread when people say 'fov' they mean 'fov_desired'. Just substitute that in your head to understand it.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 14:47:25 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Selektionsfaktor</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-7/?recent=448584#post=445789</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from profix</i>
		<blockquote>But those hours were pretty painful though. Heavy motion sickness and headaches. But now it's fine. I certainly miss 110 FoV, but I don't really give a damn.</blockquote>


		<blockquote>I’ll never get used to 90 fov. Only the best for me.</blockquote>


		<blockquote>For me playing scout and demoman with 90 fov doesn’t bother me, but soldier with 90 fov, forget it, its so confusing and an awful experience</blockquote>

You are most probably playing at a FOV of ~106 right now.

If you really think you need a FOV of 120 or more, use a custom resolution instead of a hack. It's as easy as that, no one can complain about it since it's built into the game.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 14:42:49 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Naiachi</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-6/?recent=448584#post=445773</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from profix</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

I can only speak for myself: But it took me about 5 hours to get used to FoV 90 again. (previously used 110)

But those hours were pretty painful though. Heavy motion sickness and headaches. But now it's fine. I certainly miss 110 FoV, but I don't really give a damn.</blockquote>

I agree with you. For me playing scout and demoman with 90 fov doesn't bother me, but soldier with 90 fov, forget it, its so confusing and an awful experience]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 13:30:48 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by fraac</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-6/?recent=448584#post=445767</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[I'll never get used to 90 fov. Only the best for me.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 13:05:19 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by profix</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-6/?recent=448584#post=445766</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from alba</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

you are right but once you get used to higher field of views it is really hard to get used to something lower again</blockquote>

I can only speak for myself: But it took me about 5 hours to get used to FoV 90 again. (previously used 110)

But those hours were pretty painful though. Heavy motion sickness and headaches. But now it's fine. I certainly miss 110 FoV, but I don't really give a damn.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 13:04:42 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by raugnioz</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-6/?recent=448584#post=445765</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from beach</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

Oh please.

You were no doubt playing TF2 at 90 for months or even years before openplugin came out.</blockquote>

you are right but once you get used to higher field of views it is really hard to get used to something lower again]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:56:04 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Dragon-Ninja</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-6/?recent=448584#post=445763</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from FAINTAYDAYDAYDAYDAYD</i>
		<blockquote>
Surely it is a hack, and you have just limited its capability?</blockquote>

By this definition steam overlay, mumble overlay is a hack with limited capability. 
Since this plugin executes in a way similar to cheats, people regard this more as a hack.

I think the issue here is still about the features it introduces that valve doesn't seem to want in the game. Higher FOV is the only feature it implements that could be considered a cheat.

Valve can't disable this plugin now by fixing the -insecure parameter and although there is a bunch of other ways they could stop this from working, valve can't keep up with the consistency of the community that wants some features implemented.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:33:09 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by FainT.</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-6/?recent=448584#post=445753</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[From a technical point-of-view, what is the difference between this .exe, and a hack that enables the wireframe console command?

Surely it is a hack, and you have just limited its capability? The method is the actual issue here, irrelevant of whether you think the increased fov etc is morally wrong.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 10:34:52 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by BeachTerror</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-6/?recent=448584#post=445750</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from Odissius</i>
		<blockquote>

As soon as I got in game it felt off, like it was too zoomed in (90FOV). It is just impossible for me to play at that low FOV. TF2 just ain't worth playing like this.</blockquote>

Oh please.

You were no doubt playing TF2 at 90 for months or even years before openplugin came out.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:43:47 +0200</pubDate>
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    	    <title>Reply by Odissius</title>
    	    <link>https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/customise/topic-25184/page-6/?recent=448584#post=445740</link>
    	    <description><![CDATA[<i>Quoted from laerin</i>
		<blockquote>[...]

You can still use OpenPlugin to get your higher fov. If you check the thread/github page for it, you can get the latest version which just uses a .dll file that you put in your teamfortress/bin folder. 

As for changing fovs, you still have the same cm/360 value, but the distance your crosshair travels across your screen in relation to your mouse movement will be different now. To make it easier to understand, zooming in on the sniper rifle sets your fov to 20. With a value of zoom_sensitivity_ratio 1 (the default), it reduces your sensitivity to the point where it'll still feel the same, but if you try and do a 360, you'll notice you have to move your mouse a lot more. If you set zoom_sensitivity_ratio to 4.5 (I think it's 4.5), it'll make it so the sensitivity stays the same when you zoom in, but you'll notice it'll be really hard to aim like that since your sensitivity will seem really high.

If you're changing fovs, you can keep it the same if you want for the same cm/360 or you can use this http://kyto.dez.fi/ql/zoomsens/index.php to work out what value you need to make it feel the same. Put your new fov in the Zoom FOV box.</blockquote>

Cool, thanks for the link/explanation.

Yeah, I mean I have the .dlls and stuff it's just that OpenPlugin only works with -insecure and well you can't connect to any servers with that now, so yeah, I can't get higher FOV any more.

I tried playing some TF2 for the first time in a few months, since I got the itch to play again. As soon as I got in game it felt off, like it was too zoomed in (90FOV). It is just impossible for me to play at that low FOV. TF2 just ain't worth playing like this. I don't know why Valve is being gay about all of this. Any time a game has gameplay in the Z-axis the FOV absolutely needs to be over 90.]]></description>
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    	    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 06:34:15 +0200</pubDate>
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