ETF2L – Latest activity in “Highlander pickup

ETF2L – Latest activity in “Highlander pickup - hl.lethal-zone.eu” https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/ Reply by Quell https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-7/?recent=467276#post=467276 Quoted from kzr_

Also althoug I think that pickup is a downgrade to spreadsheet, its in development and has its potencial and the more we support it the better it will get and find its place and its type of players

people say this but you have to understand that it's two different things ;) i also see lots of people talking about where the mixes at. but realistically during the past few weeks there have only been like 5 people who consistently host mixes! summer's coming to an end and people start to be more busy :) ANYONE can host a mix really. just put it up, make an announcement, rent a fakkelbrigade server, and ask someone for a mumble!]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467276 Sat, 24 Aug 2013 01:00:18 +0200 Reply by _kayzer_ https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-7/?recent=467276#post=467250 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467250 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 21:45:40 +0200 Reply by EmilioEstevez https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-7/?recent=467276#post=467233 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467233 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 19:08:29 +0200 Reply by kKaltUu https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-7/?recent=467276#post=467220 Quoted from EmilioEstevez

[...] The spreadsheet isn't intended to be "invite only", anybody who applies will get access. The application system is just a way to tie your actions on the spreadsheet to you so people cant try to anonymously abuse the sheet without consequences (although with a bit of digging it was usually possible to figure out who did it anyway). Since the application system was put in I don't think there's been a single act of vandalism on the sheet and it had gotten a lot more active/popular in recent weeks.

I'm calling it invite since you need to be accepted to get edit access, the view only mode is and was available for everyone. I'm not saying the sheet is bad, I'm saying there are better ways to organize scrims and mixes than with a sheet that has seen it's problems (even recently). But most of all, keep in mind that the spreadsheet was the replacement for the IRC bot/channel. After that IRC channel died we had to look for something else. There is no right or wrong way to help the current projects that help EU HL, but sitting around and saying that an alternative older system is better doesn't help the person that's currently putting time and effort into their project. I think giving feedback is invaluable in the development of either the HL pickup system or TF2Center.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467220 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 18:15:17 +0200 Reply by EmilioEstevez https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-7/?recent=467276#post=467199 Quoted from kKaltUu

[...] The thing is, the spreadsheet IS broken, esp. for people trying to maintain it or use it for organizing mixes. There is no safeguard for players that want to mess shit up. Making it invite-only was the only way to control who got editing access to the spreadsheet.

The spreadsheet isn't intended to be "invite only", anybody who applies will get access. The application system is just a way to tie your actions on the spreadsheet to you so people cant try to anonymously abuse the sheet without consequences (although with a bit of digging it was usually possible to figure out who did it anyway). Since the application system was put in I don't think there's been a single act of vandalism on the sheet and it had gotten a lot more active/popular in recent weeks.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467199 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 16:09:07 +0200 Reply by Q-Ball https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-6/?recent=467276#post=467198 Quoted from foxy_dave

What it does, it does well, but it is not a direct spreadsheet replacement (in its current form). It's just a pity that's what people have taken it to be.

Indeed, it was never my intention to replace spreadsheet. As I stated in my original post, I tried to create web-based solution for old IRC pickup bot. Oh I also added new ready-up system now. I haven't tested it yet, so please tell me if there're any bugs.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467198 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 16:07:04 +0200 Reply by foxy_dave https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-6/?recent=467276#post=467191 Quoted from Scissors

This. I loved that spreadsheet thing to bits. Maybe I am just afraid of change, but why fix something that isn't broken?

Attempting to improve it. The danger comes when people adopt one thing over another largely because its new or novel, rather than because it adds something. In my opinion pickup, as it currently is, does not match spreadsheet for features - specifically the ability to have multiple on at one time and to plan ahead. Currently its just a first come first served. What it does, it does well, but it is not a direct spreadsheet replacement (in its current form). It's just a pity that's what people have taken it to be.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467191 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 15:50:11 +0200 Reply by kKaltUu https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-6/?recent=467276#post=467189 Quoted from Scissors

[...] This. I loved that spreadsheet thing to bits. Maybe I am just afraid of change, but why fix something that isn't broken?

The thing is, the spreadsheet IS broken, esp. for people trying to maintain it or use it for organizing mixes. There is no safeguard for players that want to mess shit up. Making it invite-only was the only way to control who got editing access to the spreadsheet. The fact that people who signed up didn't come, (or even lacked signing up) meant that mixes would start way too late or be canquelled. Pickup was there long before the spreadsheet, and it worked. The problem was that HL was slowly losing numbers and that's why the IRC pickup was closed down. After Season 3 ended, there has been a slight increase of HL players, and similar numbers throughout season 4. Quoted from kzr_

You're addressing the core problem, and that is that there are players that want to keen and tryhard, whilst others are trying to get the gist of the game and try to improve themselves by playing at a higher level than their current team is at. I do think there needs to be a separation between those groups to accommodate those wishes, but we have to be wary not to shun any player that wants to play and improve.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467189 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 15:48:36 +0200 Reply by SilverAura https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-6/?recent=467276#post=467186 ...I have played only div6 when I was a 250-300 hours spy, now I’m a 670 hours spy and I’m clearly not a div6 spy, I’m better than that, but every decent place I go (spreadsheet/colony group) 70% of the time is “div 3+” or “div3+ chill mix” (like a div3 main medic playing engie is better than a div4 engie LOL) ... maybe it's because you're not expected to play your main class 100% of the time? you might be above div6 level spy but what about soldier or demo?]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467186 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 15:32:19 +0200 Reply by Scissors-HL https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-6/?recent=467276#post=467183 Quoted from EmilioEstevez

[...] Since this released a week or so ago there hasn't been a single spreadsheet mix (high or low div) and after playing a handful of the pickups, the skill level is kinda low. If it continues like this we've actually lost something from the community rather than added to it.

This. I loved that spreadsheet thing to bits. Maybe I am just afraid of change, but why fix something that isn't broken?]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467183 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 15:08:48 +0200 Reply by EmilioEstevez https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-6/?recent=467276#post=467181 Quoted from kzr_

If it's chill and you want new people to improve, people need to play with higher level players, not theirs or lower level players like tf2lobby, tf2lobby isn't even worth it for div6 practice.

But other are trying to improve too, and playing with very low div people all the time doesn't help with that. Quoted from kzr_

I'm so glad about the spreadsheet/colony group and pickup because atm it's the only place I can play decent HL due to the fact that I don't have a team atm and its vital to play in order to improve and stay in shape.

I liked the spreadsheet, more and more people were getting access to it and participation was pretty wide in terms of skill level. Every day there would be several "any div" mixes to go with the "3+" mixes you're talking about and plenty of the higher div people would play them too. Even in the "high div" mixes people were pretty lenient with skill levels unless you had proven you were clearly out of your depth. Since this released a week or so ago there hasn't been a single spreadsheet mix (high or low div) and after playing a handful of the pickups, the skill level is kinda low. If it continues like this we've actually lost something from the community rather than added to it.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467181 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 14:45:13 +0200 Reply by IceRedFox https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-6/?recent=467276#post=467109 Quoted from kzr_

Flame me if you want, I won't take it personally

Nothing here to be flamed for, great post. If people want a "high 1337 top skill hl" it is better for them to just find a pcw. Mixes without fresh blood are potentially dead. It just takes time to get this fresh blood flowing. "Here and now" tactics wont work.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467109 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 00:50:12 +0200 Reply by _kayzer_ https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-6/?recent=467276#post=467105 generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467105 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 00:34:45 +0200 Reply by Koeitje https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-6/?recent=467276#post=467093 Quoted from onv

Just posting here to say Koeitje is a terrible person and should feel bad about himself.

xoxo]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467093 Thu, 22 Aug 2013 22:59:44 +0200 Reply by Mervin https://staging.etf2l.org/forum/community/topic-26951/page-6/?recent=467276#post=467090 Quoted from EmilioEstevez

At the moment this just feels a bit like lobby. We need an invite only system bc allowing anybody to sign up is leading to poor quality games. Sry for being negative :S

So true, I've noticed lots of people not using comms at all and I've heard plenty of people say the same.]]> generator=rsdiscuss&baseurl=https://staging.etf2l.org&feed=forum&forum=community&topic=26951&post=467090 Thu, 22 Aug 2013 22:49:18 +0200